Calvin Booth (center) - StewMac/flickr.com
In a deal that is almost certain to become official when the NBA trade moratorium is lifted tomorrow, the Wolves will take on center Calvin Booth and swingman Rodney Carney from the Philadelphia 76ers, plus receive a first-round pick that is likely the one the Sixers got from Utah in the Kyle Korver trade. As of now, no one is reporting what Minnesota is likely to yield in return--and it really doesn't matter. This is a salary cap deal, and--unless the compensation turns out to be Rashad McCants or something--a shrewd one for Minnesota. [Update: Various sources are reporting that the compensation will simply be one of our bushel of second-round picks and the trade exception that was part of the Blount/Davis deal, a trade that apparently keeps on giving.]
The Sixers are trying to clear up as much cap space in the immediate future to go after this year's crop of free agents (reportedly targeting power forwards Elton Brand or Josh Smith) with everything they have. Carney and Booth make about $2.8 million combined. I've been told by a good authority within the Wolves organization that Philadelphia is likely paying Glen Taylor all but $500,000 of that. Since both players can come off the books the year after this one (Carney has a team option; Booth's deal will expire), the Wolves bought Utah's first round pick next year for a half million bucks (and whatever the teams agree on for Minnesota's end of the bargain).
Will Booth still be around when the season starts, or is this another Beno Udrih deal, a pass-through? (And without going too far off on a tangent, wouldn't Udrih look good in a Wolves uni right now?) Booth is probably toast. Carney, from what I can remember, is most dangerous to Kirk Snyder's chances of being resigned (which were already dealt a blow when the Wolves acquired Mike Miller on draft night).
Anyway, the usual cavaets apply here: Nothing official has been announced, and this could all be speculation run amok, although when specific players and picks and motivations are all posted at nba.com, you get the impression it is pretty legit. Finally, we don't know what the compensation will be and when it will have to be delivered. [Update: If it is indeed the $2.8 trade exemption, then there is nothing left to deliver.] Perhaps some capologists or other insiders can enlighten us on those accounts.
Pretty ugly game tonight. It's hard to judge much from that game, because I can't tell how good or bad the level of competition was, but here's a little bit of what I took away:
1. Kevin Love looks pretty good. No big surprise here. I'm not ready to jump to the crowd who liked the trade, since OJ has also looked good, but at least Love is doing the things everybody said he would do. Two great outlet passes to Brewer in a row. I think those will come in handy when Jefferson is on the bench and we need some offense. He also showed good defensive instincts, but I wasn't seeing those 35" hops that were advertised at the combines. He barely got up past the rim on what should have been an open dunk off a Brewer feed. All in all, though--good looking player.
2. Brewer looked pretty sloppy (understatement). It's hard to tell if his shot improved since all of his attempts were either on the break, or incredibly forced in the half-court. Hopefully it was shaking off the rust and not a new attitude that involves him needed to "get his." I'm not too worried about that.
3. The point guards were atrocious. Tons of turnovers, most of which were in horrible spots, like just past half-court. Neitzel got hot for a short stretch, but was probably the worst of the three at handling the rock. Let's hope they've got Bassy's pen close to a contract somewhere.
4. Longar and Love didn't play together. I was hoping to see that tandem, but they always subbed in for one another. Longar is the only shot-blocker out there, so I thought they might complement each other nicely. They went with Love & Richard, who are kind of redundant, with their strong, but low-to-the-ground ways.
Those points probably mean nothing, since it was one summer league game. But...it's July and the Timberwolves, so it was fun to watch.
My quick points regarding the buried convo below re: Gomes
I feel that Gomes has a place in our rotation based on the fact he is heady ballplayer. We've been accumulating these guys (Gomes, Miller, Love) to put around Al, who I think we should admit doesn't have the court vision of a certain previous PF of the Wolves. Miller finally puts a smart b-ball IQ into our backcourt, and Gomes is his frontcourt quasi-doppleganger. It's these types of players, rather than the hyper-athletic prospects, that can gel into a winning ballclub.
I like Craig Smith's game as well, and feel he has value as an energy player who can disrupt the flow with his tenacious rebounding.
These are important pieces to have on our team, despite the fact that we haven't addressed our most pressing needs (PG, C). Yes, we have little chance of competing without these pieces, but I feel like we will have a better idea of whom to go after in the 2009 free agent market after this season. The veteran talent that our team would benefit most by is in serious demand in a weak field, and I don't want to see us hamstrung by an Udrih-type deal.
Bottom line: despite our collective criticism of the front office, we've set ourselves up well to snag some talent from soon-to-be-struggling teams through picks and expiring deals. Oh, and can we PLEASE stop talking about Conley? Memphis will NOT give him up, but Crit and Lowry certainly could be had at a steep price...
Building towards a winner isn't sexy. Bringing in Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett within six weeks of one another was the culmination of a long term project in Boston as another poster mentioned.
The Wolves are nearing the midway point of their potential watershed and they seem to be doing it with just enough of an eye towards the near term.
Rewind 18 months to the moment Witt assumed first chair. Seems like longer, but it was 18 months to the week.
If I create line graphs from that moment until now I see consistent improvement virtually across the board:
Front Office - Its gone from Keystone Cops to head-nodding on almost every deal and move.
Locker Room: Its gone from Ricky Davis toxic to Antoine Walker malignant to seemingly benign.
Balance: From who knows, to glut of smalls, to a point guard away from decent balance.
Talent: From KG + spare parts to Big Al + spare parts+ question marks to a potentially competitive core + question marks.
Blend: Blending the mix started with the draft night move. Al, Kevin and Mike could make an intriguing offensive cocktail. Mix in the best of Brewer, Foye, Carney, McCants and stir. Add affordable RFAs and a serviceable PG.
That's Kool Aid I can sip on my Wolves lounger for now while I look beyond my toes at the 2010 horizon.
The only place I don't see improvement yet is that first chair...
Just got this explanatory email from the Wolves' FO:
Wolves 2009 Draft Picks
First Round:
- Wolves Pick (protected Top 10) to the Clippers
- Miami's Pick (protected Top 10)
- Boston's Pick (protected Top 3)
- Utah's Pick (protected Top 22)*
*See below for clarification.
Second Round:
- Wolves Pick goes to Detroit - Ronald Dupree trade
- Miami's Picks (2) - Minnesota gets the two higher (worse) of Miami's three second-round selections
Wolves 2010 Draft Picks
First Round:
- Wolves Pick (Protected Top 10) to the Clippers
- Miami's Pick (protected Top 6)
- Boston's Pick (Protected Top 2)
- Utah's Pick (protected Top 15)
Second Round:
- Wolves Pick (protected top 55-60) - Goes to Philadelphia if Minnesota finishes among the league's top five or six teams.
This means that Philly gets the pick if it's between numbers 55-60, otherwise the Wolves keep it.
- Houston's Pick (from the Gerald Green trade)
*The Utah Pick
Contrary to varying reports, the first-round pick Minnesota receives from Philly through Utah does not involve the New York Knicks. For the Wolves, the pick is protected in this manner: 2009 (22); 2010 (15); 2011 (17); 2012 (16); 2013 (16). If in the very unlikely case Utah struggles mightily for five years, Minnesota receives a second-round selection and significant cash considerations.
Wolves Have Another No. 1
- Minnesota also has the rights to a second No. 1 pick from Boston, a pick that was originally its own pick traded in the Wally Szczerbiak/Ricky Davis deal. This pick will take affect after the Wolves' pick is resolved with the L.A. Clippers, and will come two years after the pick to the Clippers is granted. The reason here is that NBA teams cannot trade consecutive first-round picks.
What It All Means
Bottom line: Minnesota could have as many as four or as few as zero picks in 2009, while the 2010 pick situation depends almost entirely upon what happens in the 2009 draft.
For Minnesota to get all four first-round picks in 2009, the protection circumstances must go through in each case: Minnesota finishes in the league's bottom 10 teams; Miami finishes outside of the league's bottom 10 teams; Boston finishes outside of the league's bottom three teams; Utah finishes among the league's top eight teams. For Minnesota to get no picks, the exact opposite would need to happen.
Protected Pick Explanation: If you're not familiar with the nuances of a "protected" pick, that designation signifies that a team will not have to forego its traded draft pick if it does not finish at a certain spot in the regular season standings. In other words, protected picks are a safeguard for a team that does worse than it expected.
Example: When the Heat made that trade (Antoine Walker, Michael Doleac, Wayne Simien and a (protected) first-round pick for Ricky Davis and Mark Blount) they included the condition that they could keep their pick if it were in the top 14 in 2008 (Michael Beasley, No. 2), top 10 in 2009, top 6 in 2010 and unprotected in 2011. But the sooner Miami is good, the sooner Minnesota gets its pick. If Minnesota gets Miami's pick in 2009 (meaning the Heat finish outside of the league's bottom 10 teams), it would no longer have Miami's pick in 2010. Likewise for Boston and Utah, and with the team's pick that goes to the Clippers if Minnesota finishes outside of the bottom 10.
Second-Rounders from Miami: Miami holds the rights to Indiana and Philadelphia's second-round picks in 2009, in addition to its own. However, the draft-day trade from this past draft means that the Wolves get whichever two of those picks are higher*. So, if Indiana has the best record of those three teams, Minnesota will hold the picks of the other two teams.
JEFF MUNNEKE
Vice President of Client Development & Community Youth Basketball Minnesota Timberwolves | Lynx 600 First Ave. N Minneapolis, MN 55403
AK--
Nice to see you back, and as usual with a couple of very informative posts (although I don't buy the "balance" argument in your first post so much; not without a proven quality performer at the two most important positions on the court).
In addition to being a very engaging and self-effacing guy, Jeff Munneke seems like a guy who is very good at what he does. I was struck by him going out and seeing what Wolves ducats were being scalped for before games a couple of years ago to get a true reaction as to public sentiment about the team. And--full disclosure--I believe Jeff is the person most responsible for sending my stuff to Wolves' season ticket holders beginning back when I was at City Pages.
Britt I was just telling my kids yesterday what a huge deal it (used)
to be to go to a Timberwolves Game.
Our family had season tickets and it was always so much fun
to see a young basketball team play with such passion and excitement.
The players were "hungry" for many years and filled with zest.
What the hell happened?
Trade a top ticket player for a ?
After not even being able to give away front row seats in the last 2 years
we passed on keeping our season tickets.
I hope you are right and the Wolves can make a comeback so that
all of the business's downtown that used to "Buzz" with excitement will
have back that energy.
It would be a great joy to "want" to support our local basketball team...
I would hate to think that I was privy to the "good years" and that the future
generations will not appreciate a team that was started and brought here
by a really great group of people.
Mel,
Please rethink your decision to give away your front row seats season tickets. I guarantee you will have no problem giving away your tickets. I'd gladly take your charity donation.
I'll tell you what, I go to more Twins games and TWolves games when the Metrodome and Target Center are empty, than when I have to try and sit through all that enthusiasm and fan mania. I like to pay a reasonable price to watch a basketball game. As much as I want the TWolves and Twins to win, once they are winning, you'll rarely see me downtown soaking in all the fan excitement. I don't mind reading about it and I realize what it does for downtown commerce, but frankly, I can do without it. Cheap seats in the lower level is my idea of heaven. But, I tell you what, I think we will soon see that ending starting next year. If the Wolves start winning, I can just see Minnesota fans embracing Kevin Love too much (Wally!) it will be difficult for me to stomach and the price of seats will increase out of my range. Don't get me wrong, I want the Wolves to win and Love to succeed, but once they do as in the KG passionate and enthusiastic era, I'll observe in front of a screen with a pint of microbrew instead.
APB-
Don't get me wrong..
I hate to see "real fans" pay the price for the fair weathered ones it's just
that I also feel for all of the people that have suffered the consequences
of lost excitement and great players.
As far as being in front of the TV with a pint of microbrew.-- cheering
on your favorite team...sounds like a front row seat to me:)
Over priced front row seats at a sold out venue....can at times..
be very overrated.
have a good day
“Bottom line is, we won 22 games,” he said. “There’s less pressure on us to sign those guys. If we won 62 games, then we probably need to sign them.”,
McHale to reporter
Seems like the wolves are tentative about spending too much on any of their free agents, especially for more than two years, makes sense. My guess, they'll take any point guard they only have to hold on to for one or two years and telfair will only be that player if no one else wants him. It might be good to get a veteran point guard to back up foye, an anthony carter type. Foye could benefit from spending time in practice with a player like that or something.
Gomes is probably the best of our free agents, but if someone else is willing to pay a hefty chunk of the midlevel exception for him, he's not worth it. Still, It's great that he makes so many contributions when he's not holding onto the ball and apparently only scoring correlates postively with salary in the nba, so maybe he can be had with a bargain contract. If not, maybe a sign and trade to a contending team could be worked out. Maybe for the clipper's brevin knight? Not exactly a contending team, but he'd fit into a baron davis offense next to chris kaman.
Craig Smith is tons of fun to watch and makes for a decent 7th or 8th man, but if he's paid like a 6th man or better, he's not worth it. He's a rebounding and defensive liability despite his scoring abilities.
I agree that the Rhino is ideally a 7th-8th man type talent (unless he can chisel his body and develop a jumper) and should not get any more than that contract wise. But, I think you've got to lump Gomes into that same category.
I've beat this drum before, but I don't get the "GomesLove" I read so much of on this blog. Sure he had some nice games, but he also had a ton of games where he pretty much disappeared...no scoring, getting lit up defensively, yada, yada...
He's not tall or strong enough to be an effective 4 and he's two slow to be a 3. He is pretty solid fundamentally, but rarely does anything special. In sum, a nice bench player. That's it. And not enough of a scorer to even fill the 6th man role.
I can't help but feel that people want to think that Gomes is better than he is to help justify the KG trade. If Gomes leaves, all we got was Al and our pick back. Personally I am fine with that, if Gomes wants too much dough. He wouldn't be difficult to replace.
Good points. The difference in my mind is fit. No matter what your opinions on Jefferson, the team considers him a cornerstone. With that in mind, the team was much better with a Gomes/Jefferson frontcourt than with a Smith/Jefferson frontcourt. We also just added another power forward in Love. As much as I like Smith, I think he'd be better off on another team for his own career.
I'm a Gomes fan. Knowing how to play the game, especially on a team as young as this one, is one strength. Last year, only Antoine Walker could figure out how to play ball as strategically as Gomes, and 'Toine didn't have nearly as much left in the tank.
When people talk about doing the "little things," what does it mean? It means ball movement--always looking to create the best possible shot in the half court. It means shot selection--taking everything into consideration, such as shot clock, matchup, openness, how many teammates under the boards for a rebound, is anyone else open. It means consistency of defensive rotations. It means smart versus dumb fouls. It means emphasizing what you can do well and deemphasizing what you can't do well.
In my opinion, Ryan Gomes did the "little things" better than anyone on the roster last season. By contrast, since Craig Smith is being invoked here, the Rhino is often a black hole in the low block, isn't consistent with his rotations, committed a lot of dumb fouls and--and this is a "big thing"--occasionally doesn't or can't hustle back down the court in transition.
Craig Smith will never be a major contributor (top 8 in the rotation) to a legit championship contender. Gomes is exactly the kind of player contenders look for to round out their top 7 or 8.
Those are good points. I think they relate to what I was saying about fit in the sense that the Wolves don't have many players like Gomes, and him replacing Smith at the 4 helped the Wolves defensively and offensively. He understood how to play with Jefferson on offense and defense, and his rebounding numbers were similar. Numbers-wise, they're fairly even, but I don't think Smith could regularly play 30 minutes and Gomes proved he could last season. It was the ability to minimize his weaknesses that kept him on the floor. Those weaknesses mean he might never be a starter on a contender, but I never expected that from him. He's one of those players for whom fewer minutes might mean better production.
I think you guys basically agree with me about Gomes potential role (7-8th man). He is certainly a valuable bench player who doesn't make mistakes and can play a couple of positions (although he is a classic 3/4 tweener, who shouldn't start at either).
I meant to address the people out there that pencil in Gomes as the starting 3 and/or feel there is an enormous urgency to resign the guy. That, I am not buying.
As far as the Gomes vs. Rhino debtate. I am a little torn. I used to lean Rhino, because I believe his ability to score in the post is a special talent that could be harnessed under the right circumstances. Whereas, Gomes doesn't have any particular strengths to his game, other than his lack of glaring weaknesses. Now that we have Love, and assuming he can score at the NBA level, the scales may have tipped in Gomes favor.
I don't think either will have a problem finding work, but I do think it is important that the Wolves don't overpay for either. Maybe you sign whichever is cheaper (again assuming it is not beyond a projected 7-8 man level).
Responding to my own post...now that I think about it, does the Miller pickup make Gomes expendable as well? And how about Carney?
One of Gomes' primary assets is his ability to provide spot duty at the 3. We now have Brewer, Miller, and maybe Carney (if he can secure a roster spot) at the 3, with both Brewer and Carney still on cheap rookie deals. I am assuming Brewer is still going to get major minutes (whether he earns them or not) and Carney may get a roster spot by default if he can't be packaged for another player. Miller is more or less guaranteed 30+ min between the 2 and 3 spots.
And how many minutes does Gomes get at the four playing behind Al and Love?
The more I think about it, the guy has very little leverage.
Whenever you get something for nothing, that's a nice deal. If I can somehow get Lowry/Conley or some other backup point by giving up Carney/Smith/picks I'd definitly do it. But if they keep him and alternate minutes for him and Brewer, I'd be fine with that too.
What I like most about this trade is that it is looking more and more like we're going for the Portland strategy: get lots of assets and after that use them to get whatever you need to fit into the puzzle.
Also, is it just me or does Calvin Booth look a lot like Gregory "Humpty Hump" Jacobs in the attached picture?
This trade is part of a positive trend for the Wolves. In a vacuum, there is no down-side to this deal:
*Gained a 1st round pick and possibly a rental of a borderline lottery talent in Carney
*Gave up only a 2nd round pick and $.5 mil
*This is the type of deal that traditionally other teams have done, that the Wolves never do.
Win-win-win
In a larger context, this is another confirmation to my thought that the Wolves are trying to emulate the "hoard resources until something good happens" plan that the Celtics and Blazers have seemed to be doing for the last few years. The team is full of young players with decent contracts and at least the potential to be intriguing trade bait if nothing else (remember a few years ago when the best tradeable was Wally and his bloated contract, which simultaneously made him a trade anchor?). The salary cap situation looks solid. They have a surplus of future #1s instead of a deficit, for the first time since the late 90s. Things could be looking up a bit.
I don't know how good this current set of players can be, and they are still lacking the transcendent centerpiece that I believe they need to find before they can think contention, but I am encouraged that at the least the team seems to finally be moving in a direction that could have some positive outcomes.
I'll be going to check out how the young guys look in Vegas next week, and I'm pretty excited about that as well.
I too am quite pleased by this trade. They actually have made a string of decent deals, going back to the unloading of Ricky Davis and Mark Blount on Miami (the trade that just keeps on giving). I disliked the Mayo trade, but I'm starting to come around on it a little bit; it's at least not an immediately obvious mistake like some the club has made in the past (*cough*Ebi*cough*). And there is no downside to today's particular trade, that I can see. I hope that we are seeing the hand of Fred Hoiberg in all of this.
The Wolves are going to be lousy again next year, but at least they are lousy with a purpose now, as opposed to the crappy-with-no-end-in-sight style of the bad old days. If they could do what someone else suggested (can't remember if it was here or a commenter at the Strib) and somehow work another deal with Memphis to snake Mike Conley away from them, I would be over the moon with where they're sitting.
A source in the organization has told me that the second round pick is protected into the 50s, which means that unless the Wolves are really good next year they won't even have to fork it over.
Hey, what's not to like?! We get a shot at a draft pick, get an extremely cheap look at a supposedly athletic 3 and another big stiff to clog the lane. I would pit Carney and Brewer against each other in 1 on 1 drills all practice...it would be good for both of them.
Here's his draft profile from 2006 (same year as Foye)
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rodney-Carney-76/
I remember him getting drafted and had lots of comparisons to Richard Jefferson, hopefully we can lead him on that sort of path.
In any case, it's nice to see the wolves getting in the middle and getting something for facilitating a trade between two pretty desperate teams.
I didn't like most of the draft-night moves, but this is yet another good move by McHale & Co. I don't know enough about the cap situations of teams to know if Minnesota had a rare commodity with that exception, but I'm happy we jumped at the chance to be Philly's trading partner in their pursuit of more cap room. Since we're likely to lose our own 1st Rounder next year or the year after that, it will be nice to have even more flexibility to cushion the blow with a bunch of other 1st Rounders. (I'm not entirely sure how they break down, but don't we also have Miami's and Boston's next year?) Anyway, none of them will be very high, but having so many might allow us to move up and get a player where LAC will be drafting with our pick.
Carney has only two years of league experience and is more athletic than any of our current players. The fact that he struggled in Philly is obviously a red-flag, but he was almost a lottery pick the same year Foye was, and plenty of us Wolves' fans still think we're going to see a lot more from him. I'm happy with this move, even if it isn't coupled with another one in the coming days.
It's essentially Glen Taylor spending his bucks he didn't have to on a low first-rounder and retaining ALL cap flexibility for 2009-10. It's all good.
And from what Britt wrote, he got the pick much more cheaply than Paul Allen usually pays.
By the way, Rodney Carney has a website. Google it. Not updated since '07. Benchwarming will do that to your traffic.
Just read about this on CNN/SI, and they are reporting that the Wolves will give up their $2.8MM trade exception (from the Davis/Blount Miami trade) and a future 2nd rounder.
Works for me. Booth has been a part time player since 2004, and Carney looks like a bust, but buying a first round pick...that I like.
I'm a bit less optimistic about this deal unless the Wolves can acquire a functional backup point (or starting one) before the year begins. The way things stand now, Shaddy, Foye, and Brewer are the team's main guards. That simply cannot stand and Carney is essentially a cross between Cupcake's athleticism and Snyder's performance. He's not a good shooter, he doesn't get to the line as much as he should, and he can't rebound all that well, but he does appear to be able to defend. I'm not sure where a player like that fits in with Brewer already sitting at the 2/3 and Gomes (hopefully) at the 3/4, but who knows? 1st round picks are nice, but that's a slotted 3 year contract a'la Ebi. If the Heat are good next year, the Wolves could have 3 picks in the 20s. They can't keep them all and I'm really hoping that some of these picks (and Carney) are moved for a legit point/backup point. How about Carney, a sign and traded Smith, and 2 of the 20s picks to Memphis for Mike Conley? They would be giving up flexibility in next year's draft, but they lock in their core at Conley, Foye, Miller, Love, and Jefferson.
This trade has to lead to something else or it just doesn't make a lot of sense on its own.
I should mention that it would make sense if they decided that they're not going to offer Gomes a deal over 2 years. This gets them by on the cheap until 2010 but it does nothing to address their major pg issues. Here's where they stand right now:
1- Foye/Shaddy
2- Brewer/Shaddy/Carney
3- Miller/Carney
4- Love/Cardinal
5- Jefferson/Collins
Here's hoping they have a deal worked out with Memphis for Lowry...or, better yet, Conley. If not, they're going to have some major problems trying to get any sort of use out of guys like Blake Ahern or Drew Neitzel.
IT seems like a no-brainer for a trade. I agree that there his a glaring hole in the WOlves roster at backup PG, but S&P, I'm not sure a share your view that this will not be easily filled with either Telfair or a player of similar value or better. This trade gives them more leverage to get that backup and I'm sure the FO has options and plans abvailable if they can't sign Telfair.
I'm still not convinced that Chalmers would have been a good pick to fill this spot either. He's a good shooter and scorer, but not a natural point guard and playmaker in the sense of getting the ball to players in spots where they can do something with it. That is the sense I get from the limited reports I have read on him anyway. With the importance of feeding Big Al in this offense, I can see why they did not have a need for a 6'1" shooting guard even with his efficiency numbers. This fits into the mold that Foye/McCants already fill. He is better defensively, but I still would rather have a playmaking point guard and not be in the position of having a roster spot filled with someone who doesn't fit this role.
Unless the Wolves are going to be forced to bring in Nietzel, Ahern, run McCants out there at the Point, or, God forbid, bring back Huddy, I think they will sign a solid veteran PG or trade for a backup. I do think the idea of working a trade for Conley is very appealing.
The most astonishing thing about this trade is that this is another first round pick gained through the trading of Mark Blount and Ricky Davis, two players who made the wolves better just by leaving town. That makes three first round picks if you include the one we got from Memphis in the Love/Mayo trade that sent Antoine with Mayo and included a first round pick in return. Simply amazing.
I'd be more than happy if they brought back Bassy.
As for the trade, it's a 2 part equation: first you collect the assets and then you deploy them. The FO has done a nice job of collecting a bunch of assets from a team that was centered on KG, Blount, Davis and a bunch of owed picks within a span of a year. They did a wonderful job with the Mayo/Love trade. With this 2 part deal, they've done a great job of getting assets in place...now they just need to deploy them in a reasonable manner. Do they sign Bassy and give Carney a 1-year run? Do they keep Carney and not sign Gomes? Do they trade Carney + some assets for a PG? Until they move these assets, it's tough to say that this trade does anything for the club as Carney duplicates what they already have and a 3rd 1st rounder in the 20s can't possibly be kept on the roster. This deal requires an additional move and I don't think you can grade it until that move is made.
That being said, it's nice to see this FO operate like this. They're finally making some moves that make a lot of sense.
I do agree there is probably another move coming.
That said, considering the players we have today I would re-sign Bassy and let Gomes, Snyder, and Smith go their separate ways.
And I'd love to see them make a run at Shaun Livingston--when he was healthy he was amazing with the Clips.
I agree that it makes no sense to keep the players. I expect it to boil down to buying a first round pick for $500,000 with both players being released. Is it realistic to think that we could get anything for Carney? He's an athletic player that shoots more 3s than FTs. I'm not so excited about having another player who's highest aspiration is slam dunk champ.
Do you think Memphis would do another deal with us? Already it seems like we are becoming the boston to their woofies. They do have plentiful PGs, however, and without Bassy, everyone of them is an upgrade over ours.
Based on what Carney has shown so far, it is unlikely that any team would view him as an player asset in a trade. But, he could be a nice throw in due to his expiring contract. If we are looking for another swing man, there are probably undrafted guys out there with more upside.
Would love to to see the Wolves make a run at a young point guard like Lowry. We'd have to take on a bad contract most likely, Booth and Carney's expiring contracts could help make the cap numbers work.
I can't say that I'll miss Bassy. I loved how he pushed the ball, and the low turnovers, but the guy can't shoot, can't finish, and will be a life long defensive liability. He's an mediocre back-up option at best.
I like the deal as it is. Another first rounder for cheap, as well as helping send Elton Brand to the Eastern Conference. Id like the deal better if we could use Carney to get another asset where we need one, and it really doesnt make a lot of sense to keep him. McHales been on fire as of late (wow that feels weird to say), and so I could definitely imagine him swinging another deal.
Craig Smith I think doesnt fit in with this roster, and as talented as he is that has become apparent. Memphis needs additional bulk so I agree that any deal would be Carney and Smith to Memphis (our new Celtics). Only thing that bums me is if we get Lowry, that would mean no Telfair right? I think the guy really worked hard last season and earned a spot on this team. He is a natural point guard, those are hard really hard to come by, and I think he will only get better.
I'm not sure how rhino doesn't fit. We still have a short team that's short on talent at the C and PF spot. Rhino is only extra if both Collins and Love turn out to be great. Don't forget that Cardinal is terrible. He may have a shorter contract than Jaric, but we will get far less out of him (and that is not meant as a compliment to Jaric).
I like the big-picture thinking here. First round picks are good, but if you can turn them, along with other assets, into a solid player now at a position of need, that could be even better.
Conley would be great to pick up for some package of Smith/Carney/Gomes and picks.