Copyright 2008 NBAE (Photo by David Sherman/NBAE via Getty Images)
Game #63, Home Game #33: Portland 103, Minnesota 96
Season Record: 14-49
1. When It Matters Most
Al Jefferson did not score a single point in the first 19 minutes and 4 seconds of this game, which I'd wager is his longest drought of the season thus far. By the time he grabbed an offensive rebound and tossed in the putback, three of his teammates--Marko Jaric, Rashad McCants and Craig Smith--were already in double figures and the Wolves were up 5. In the locker room after the game, Jefferson sprawled easily in his chair and exclaimed that the situation showed "that my teammates had my back." This is the way a leader talks.
The screws were turned for almost this entire game, making it one of the more enjoyable to watch this year. There were no double-digit leads, 16 ties, and 18 lead changes. In such a game you knew that Jefferson's prominence would steadily rise, and you suspected that on Portland's side, a similar dynamic was coalescing around combo guard Brandon Roy.
And so it went. Jefferson's point totals through three periods were 0-2-6. Roy's were 7-5-6. In the 4th quarter, Jefferson led all scorers with 12 points, shooting 6-9 FGs, while the rest of his teammates shot 2-13 FG and coughed up a 5-point lead in an 18-6 run over the final 6:06 of the game. Asked if he got frustrated with the disparity between his own accuracy and that of his teammates during these final 12 minutes, Jefferson replied, "I got frustrated with myself for missing shots and tried to get myself going."
Roy led his team in fourth quarter field goals (3-5), free throws (3-4), points (9) and assists (2). "Roy got to the rim," Wolves coach Randy Wittman stated. "They didn't settle for 25-foot jump shots."
Let's address this Brandon Roy versus Randy Foye thing head-on for a moment. Through no fault of his own, Foye is apparently destined to be bedeviled with Roy comparisons, due to the Wolves drafting Roy and immediately trading him for Foye. Since Roy was Rookie of the Year during Foye's rookie year and was an all-star while Foye's sophomore pro season has been spent recovering from a knee injury, it is difficult to claim, at this point anyway, that the Wolves got the better of the deal.
Roy is one of those players better appreciated in person than on the stat sheet. There is a marvelous placidity to his style, a level-headedness that has a calming, confidence boosting effect on his team. From the Wolves being up 90-87 with 5:48 to play, he keyed a 14-4 run over the next 5:14, either scoring or assisting on every point but James Jones's three-pointer, including two kamikaze drives through traffic that, as Wittman admiringly noted, finished at the rim.
Foye did not have one of his better crunchtime performances, going a little too strong on his classic running banker down the right lane with 1:32 to play and Portland up 2, 94-92, and then having a similar shot swatted away by Joel Przybilla with the Wolves down 7, 101-94, at 34 seconds to go. The contrast was sharp.
But the greater point here is overall crunchtime leadership--those who have it and those who don't. And on that count, Foye has shown a willingness and proclivity to make big shots. To further the bedevilment, he doesn't offer the same versatility of ways to beat you that Roy seems to, and his ballhandling and overall mien is less calming than it is propulsive and perhaps infectiously energizing.
Crunchtime prowess is probably the most compelling argument for starting Foye at point guard ahead of Sebastian Telfair, even when Telfair returns and is healthy enough to play. As eye-opening as Bassy has been in terms of floor generalship and pacemaking, we have seen, more than once, what happens when opponents practically dare Telfair to shoot when the game is on the line. Meanwhile, opponents would not be remiss in doubling Foye, or at the least preparing for his hell-bent-for-leather traipse down the right lane.
As a longtime defender of Kevin Garnett, I know how skewed and inaccurate the "can't score in the clutch" epithet can be; but, that said, understand why someone would invoke crunchtime as a means of separating Lebron James and Kobe Bryant from KG among the top 3 MVP candidates this season. Some guys, for better or worse, in wisdom or lopsided ego, just want to seize these make or break moments. Some don't.
And some shouldn't, which brings me back to the "Lost in the Crunch" title of this trey. Marko Jaric had a nice game tonight: a dozen points, six assists, three steals and zero turnovers. But is anyone surprised that Jaric had 10 of those 12 points in the first period on 4-5 FG and was scoreless in 5:57 of the 4th, with his only FGA a wild, ill-advised airball on a left handed layup attempt with Portland up 1 with 4:30 to play? Is anyone surprised that Shaddy McCants nailed his first 7 shots, executing that jab-step, pull-back-and-shoot move to literal perfection, and went 7-8 FG through three quarters, only to go 1-4 FG in the fourth, culminated by an airball trey with Portland up 5 and less than a minute to go? And is anyone surprised that Corey Brewer strode into a long jumper in rhythm yet still clanked it, then mimicked Jaric's crazy drive to the basket and left handed airball--two shots that comprised half of his 0-4 FG evening--during the crunchtime swoon?
After the game, Wittman tempered his criticism of the 4th quarter offense, obviously in deference to the confidence of this clank crew. "We had our chances," he said. "We had good looks. Ryan had several good looks." That would be Gomes, the superglue and team barometer who likewise has proven to be shaky in the clutch. He went 0-2 FG in the 4th tonight, but was missing wide open looks most of the evening en route to his 5-14 FG performance, further besmirched by his zero assists and 2 measley rebounds (such are the hazards of guarding Joel Przybilla, who doesn't score but boxes out pretty well).
BTW, here's a link to the "Clutch Stats Chart" at 82games.com:
http://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
2. Free Throw Bugaboo Strikes Again
At the 5:55 minute mark of the third period, Foye committed yet another of the team's dumb, reach-instead-of-shuffle fouls on defense, putting Portland in the penalty. At the time Minnesota had hit 8-9 FT, almost exactly the same as Portland's 9-10 FG, and the Wolves were up 68-65. I leaned over to Myles Brown of slamonline.com and said, here comes a free throw parade. If the Wolves can stay within ten FTs of Portland, they'll win. Otherwise, they'll lose.
Well, Minnesota never again got to the free throw. The Blazers got 16 more free throws, and made 13--more than enough to turn a 3 point lead into a final 7 point deficit. And to anyone who has watched the team play this season, my prescience wasn't that visionary, in fact rather predictable. Minnesota is next to last in the league in the number of free throws they shoot and have the fifth largest amount of free throws shot against them. That's how you can score more field goals than your opponents over the course of 63 games and still be 14-49. Opponents have converted a whopping *433* more free throws than Minnesota, which works out to 7 points per game.
As usual, tonight was a combination of stupid fouls on defense and a lack of foresight and aggression on offense. McCants and Gomes were chief offenders of the cheap, reach-in type that is a Wolves's specialty. And in postgame remarks, Wittman called out his team for not attacking the rim when Portland's big, especially Aldridge and Pryzbilla, showed hard on the pick and roll, leaviing the lane open to express layups.
3. Hit and Run
Sure hope it is the Gator rook's nagging thigh bruise and not some "extended look" or pecking order shenanigans that has Kirk Snyder getting many of the early minutes--including the starter's minutes--that not so long ago belonged to Corey Brewer.
Yet another too-small sample size and yet another decent plus/minus--a team-best zero--for Chris Richard tonight.
Crazy schedule makers had the Wolves out west, then back home for one game tonight versus Portland, then back out to the West Coast. Would a road game in Portland that saved two flights given them more of a shot at victory than a home drive-by ?
Hey all!
First let me say I am a huge Randy Foye fan. But I refuse to look the other way when holes in his game become apparent. Plain and simple, he needs to learn to make moves to his left, and finish with his left.(more on that in a second) A point guard should be effective on both sides of the court, not just one. Another problem I'm having with Foye's game is the incredible amount of jumpers he settles for. For a guy who I believe can go anywhere on the floor he wants to, he shys away from taking it to the hoop. He still seems timid at the point guard position. He rarely takes initiative to drive to the hoop.
Randy Foye a scorer? I have to disagree. Manu Ginobli is a scorer, Tracy McGrady is a Scorer, Kobe Bryant is a scorer, Gilbert Arenas is a scorer... don't put Foye in there..yet To me a scorer is a person who can get theirs against anyone. Against top tier talent, and bottom of the barrel. Note all those guys I mentioned can score with the left hand, the right hand, driving to their left, right, center, hit the mid-range, nail the fade away, dial in from distance, take you off the dribble, post you up, cross you up and dunk it in your face, it doesn't matter they get theirs against anyone.
Don't get me wrong, I'm critical of Foye because I believe Foye has so much more to offer and could be, yes a star in the league, an all star as well. Am I mad that we traded Roy for Foye? No. I wanted Randy Foye. Still do. Is Roy a better player so far? Yeah, no contest. But Roy's success doesn't make me dislike Foye's game more. Foye does need to stay healthy, but he also has to add more to his game. To the left, to the left ....
Let me preface this post by saying that I know it is a small sample size. However, Foye has done nothing to dispel the notion that he can be an effective starting point guard (which I have vigorously). In three games at the point, the Wolves are 2-1, and Foye is averaging 18.6 points, 7 assists and 4.6 rebounds. Dare I say he is putting up "Roy-like" numbers.
If Foye can stay healthy, not only will he be an effective point guard, he will become a star.
Last post was mine.
I like Randy Roye. I like Rashad McCants. I like Sebastian Telfair. I like Corey Brewer. I like Derek Rose. I like Oj Mayo. I don't know how you fit 5 of the 6 on the same team and find enough playing time for everyone, especially when you figure Craig Smith and Ryan Gomes would be nice players to keep around, too. And, then, throw in the fact that this team is better when Al Jefferson is at the 4 and we need a shot blocking defensive and rebounding center wioth a nice offensive game to play next to AJ and you start giving yourself fits over what this team needs most to get to the next level. But that is beside the point. Lets just focus on Randy Foye.
I have come to the agreement that the Brandon Roy trade for Foye was a mistake. I agreed with it at the time. I liked Foye at Villaneuva and I was disappointed when we drafted ROy, but woke up the next morning pleased when we made the trade. What the hell do I know? But, still, as with McCants, sometimes - at least I think - we take criticism too far. Can't we just say that Roy has turned out to be a better p[ayer than Foye rather than suggesting that this is equivalent to the Ebi pick. But, I could even listen to that argument. But, here is what really gets me. Foye leads the Wolves to victory against the Clippers and does it by going to the basket and either getting fouled or finishing at the hoop. The next game, in the 4th, he goes to the hoop and as Britt says "going a little too strong on his classic running banker down the right lane with 1:32 to play and Portland up 2, 94-92, and then having a similar shot swatted away by Joel Przybilla with the Wolves down 7, 101-94, at 34 seconds to go." A very fair description and much appreciated. But, from this, suddenly we have suggestions that Foye has only one move to the basket and can be easily defended? Or, that he's a halfback to Roy's soccer player? or, that he cannot go left?
Here is the deal. I don't know if Foye will ever be as good as Roy (my guess is he probably won't). And, don't know if he'll ever be an all star. I am very undecided if he can even lead this team as the point guard to the Western conference players. But, there is only one thing that counts in basketball and that is if the ball goes in the hoop. Foye puts it in the hoop. Hes got a nice shot and he finishes his drives. He has proven himself clutch in the 4rth as well. He might not be described as silky smooth, but he can put the ball in the hole. Can he play point? don't know. Does he play good defense? could be better. But, the guy can score and he seems to work hard (two things he also seems to have in common with McCants). I don't know if he is a fit with the Wolves or one to team with Big Al. But, if he's not, it won't be because he doesn't know how to put the ball in the hole.
If we are lucky enough to get Rose (most experts have him going at #2) then Telfair is probably gone, and you obviously don't have Mayo, so you've got Rose-Foye-Brewer as your 1-2-3, with McCants as 6th man. Hopefully, Jefferson gets bumped down to the 4 by whatever 7-footer we get, even if it's not anything too special, but can play D. Gomes and Smith fill out your bench, and that actually could look like a great team by 2010 if things worked out, at least in my mind. If you don't like Foye or Brewer as your 2-3, then you'd have a problem with it, but I think those two will both succeed in those spots. It's not far-fetched at all to build that lineup, but plenty would argue whether it amounts to a contender. I think it does a lot more than something like Telfair-Foye-Brewer-Jefferson-Lopez/Hibbert/Jordan. To me, that puts too much pressure on Foye as a playmaker, much like the role that Roy has, and is better suited for, in Portland.
I don't disagree with anything you say about Foye, including the unfairness of the comparisons, but when you watch a struggling team as much as these posters do, you've gotta find topics to discuss that don't involve the upcoming playoffs that we won't be a part of. Even though I came away from the last game further toward the Roy crowd of the debate, I think it would be foolish to close the door on it. Foye's "move" that people say is his only one, is a very tough one, and a great thing to have when he gets in the paint. Plus, I've always like his jumper and think he could be a prolific three-point shooter as his career progresses and especially if he played alongside a premier point guard. His defense may be questionable at the 2-spot (but may not be if he improves like a lot of competitive players do), but with Brewer at the 3, and the right center that is yet to be found, that problem could be mitigated.
I think Orlando fans, for the first few years with Penny, probably felt they got the better of that C-Webb draft day trade. After five or six years, though, that feeling probably changed.
My point with Rose and Mayo was not that we could end up with both, but rather that I'd be happy with either as a player. However, with the current roster and the plethora of combo guards like McCants, Jaric and Foye it is hard to figure out how to make it work. I also have a suspician that Jefferson will be getting a majority of his minutes next year playing the five alongside Smith, Gomes and maybe Beasley at the 4.
Just a quick spray in.. did anyone notice Gerald Green being cut by the Rockets...
Yeah. Maybe he's working on his game with Ndudi Ebi down there.
Everyone knows I don't like McCants, so I won't even go there. I would just like to say that his defensive ineptitude was very noticeable (by everyone apparently)... the way he leaves his man open to shoot threes and whatnot. It's not like last night was the first (or last) time it happened this season.
I wanted to discuss Foye. At the game last night, I was trying to think of any time in the recent past that I've seen him take it to the hoop and do a move other than his pet move. (His "pet move" being the runner off the glass down the right side of the lane.) I mean, he NEVER goes down the left side of the lane. He does no other moves. He does no fakes. He does nothing else around the rim other than attempt his runner. I couldn't think of anything, but I could be wrong.
The thing that got me thinking about it was the plethora of Roy's silky smooth foray's into the lane where he creates, and simply makes things happen... either by scoring himself or setting up his teammates.
Once again, I could be wrong but Foye needs to start developing a LOT of variety if he ever wants interior shot blockers to respect him. If he doesn't it will be much harder in the future, as everyone and their mom knows what move Foye will be attempting when he drives.
I think Foye's problem is that he seems burdened by expectations. Initially, to play with/off of a superstar in KG, while "learning" to be a point guard in the NBA (front office mistake - getting a player not immediately ready to play his assigned position). Then, when KG left, he felt that he had to step up as the leader - a natural instinct you want in a point guard (along with natural point guard skills, of course). And now he has the knee injury.
Meanwhile, Roy plays the game like he hasn't got a care in the world, and it's wonderful to watch. OK, he was the guy we needed. Hindsight, yes. But if the front office had more foresight ...
Britt--
So I heard something on NBA TV last night that, if it's true, is pretty amazing/damning:
The announcer said that Randy Whitman has NOT coached a 3 game winning streak in his ENTIRE NBA coaching career. Any idea if its true?
Now I know that he hasn't here, but in 1+ seasons in Cleveland? That is pretty remarkable. 2+ seasons with no 3 game winning streaks and you still have your job.
I was at the game, and it was as entertaining as it was predictable (very). These guys are like the old days when the Twins had Ron Davis as their closer. I don't think good teams are the least bit concerned if they are down single digits with 6 minutes left. Say what you want about Garnett's ability to finish, but I doubt most teams wanted to be trailing when he was on the team.
On the backbreaker (Jones' late 3-pointer), from my angle it was clearly man-to-man defense and McCants obviously lost Jones, but to me it looked like a case of good coaching wiping the floor with bad coaching -- McMillian ran Roy of the same screen on the other side of the floor and the Wolves expected him to get the ball (as Witt told him they would in the timeout, i'm sure). A second later, Jones made the same cut on the opposite side -- McCants was caught watching Roy and the defender of the guy setting the pick was too -- just like that, open 3.
I think that had to have been drawn up and was the type of creativity and thought that the Wolves lack (at least when Witt is coaching the team). He can stare his palyers down all he wants and yap at them as they head to the bench during timeouts (which he seems to be doing more of) but until he can prove he can match wits (excuse the pun) with the other good coaches in the league, I doubt there will be many three-game winning streaks. The Trailblazers trusted their coach to call a play, and clearly they know their roles. Jones' didn't hesitate despite the fact they were VERY early in the shot clock -- it's his job to knock down open 3s, and that's what he did. Now if only we could get McCants that open late in the game, but usually he's well guarded.
OK, mea culpa on my part -- i just did my own homework on Witt's record in cleveland and he did have several winning streaks longer than 2 games. So they were just talking about his 1+ seasons in MN. Not that it makes it any better.
I saw that game and agree Briit, it was a fun game to watch!
Why wasn't Craig Smith out there at the end of the game, or 3rd quarter? Seems like he got shelved. He was just as hot as McCants. Coache's decision I guess.
Ok, what's with Foye? His stupid move where he drives to the right, and shoots a runner, is getting old and predictable. In fact, it's almost sad that he can't get to the hop to his left. Has anyone ever seen him make moves going to his left? He's becoming predictable and stale. Bradnon Roy can drive to his left, can drive to his right, can nail a jumper fading from a drive to his left, sink a runner driving to his left, oh and yes, he can do it to his right also. It's versatility. Foye should really look into this.
Was Flip Saunders coaching in the 3rd period? Because all of the sudden we started taking jump shot after jump shot after jump shot. Throughout the game Jim kept talking about how we hadn't gotten Portland in the penalty in any quarter. And the thing is, proven by Jaric, we could get into the lane. McCants fell in love with his jumper and became 1 dimensional.You gotta mix it up. Just look at Roy. He never at any point in the game became 1 dimensional. He hit from range, he drove, mid range, post ups, got to the line, dive and kicks... the complete package.
Apparently Al Jeffereson asked to guard LaMarcus. Umm.. He wasn't ready. But valiant.
But it was a good game. It's a team we're are going to see a lot of in the future. Note they will have Greg Oden next year and have an extremely big front line. But I thought we played them tough. I feel if we take it to the rim more often, maybe get to the line a bit more, be a bit more aggressive at point (and a bit less predictable) we win that game.
thanks britt and fellow bloggers!
As far as Randy Foye goes, I've seen him go left. There's video on the internet of him going left. He's much more likely to start out going left and switch to his right. He makes more fakes to go the left before going right as well. Also, he uses his right hand a lot to finish his moves from the left. Still, he goes left on occassion. His right handed floater can be pretty good anyway though. He takes that floater from a lot of different spots on the floor. He can pull up too. And, as has been said, he's developing a decent three pointer. I guess I'd rather see him drive for that right handed floater in the fourth quarter anyway. Eventually people will start fouling him as he does that. If people play him too hard to the right though, I'm sure he'll develop a spin move.
If he keeps playing the one though, it'll be real nice to see more of a post game from him. He's a bigger one and the broad shoulders and hips he's got could be used a lot more effectively to create space for shots in the post against smaller point guards. And, Mchale is good at one thing atleast: post moves (and perhaps evaluating PFs.he does a great job of drafting fours like Craig Smith and Garnett and I have a suspicion that Amare Stoudamire would look worse with the wolves than Al Jefferson) Maybe he can teach foye some post moves, Foye has already got decent touch around the rim. Perhaps touch is one of those things you can't teach, that's why you should never draft luc longely or pick up Rasho or Madsen in free agency. Plus, practice in the post would give him some footwork skills he could use while driving to create more fouls. There's a reason that Craig Smith, who isn't much taller than Foye, rarely gets blocked. Yeah, he's a wide load, but he knows how to move his feet to make the most of it.
For those old enough to remember, how does Foye's game compare to Joe Dumars? He was only 6'3" and was just voted the 10th best two-guard to ever play. I wish they'd abandon this point-guard idea ASAP. His potential as a two might be higher than Roy's, but if they're both playing point, it's not a close comparison.
Joe Dumars played outstanding defense.
Dumars? my mermory of him is as the other guard alongside Isaih. Either could do the point duties and I believe Dumars was known more for his defense than offense. It was probably Joe guarding Dennis or Magic and when the Pistons needed some instant Offense they had the microwave waiting on the bench.
I agree that Foye does not have to be the classic point guard and I think I heard Aschburner on Barriero a week or so ago saying that Mchale probably thinks the same. Dennis Johnson was not a classic point guard. But, I don't see the Dumars comparison right now.
Andy G--
Dumars was a lock-down defender, tough as nails. He deferred to Zeke on offense but could stick the open J when called upon. He played bigger than 6-3 and--kudos to Nate for making me think of it--had the luxury of Rodman/Laimbeer/Salley to enforce the paint.
Not much to compare him with Foye.
Yeah, you'd certainly want some "bad boys" on the front line if you're running out a 6' and 6'3" backcourt, which is about what Isiah and Joe D were, and about what Bassy and Foye are. We currently have an undersized front line to complement our undersized backcourt. Probably not a recipe for success. I just wondered if the Dumars skill set resembled what Foye shows flashes of. It sounds like he was more of a spot shooter and defense-first guy. Oh well, just trying to convince myself of ways that Foye could excel, and I haven't seen much evidence that it will happen at the point, combo, lead, whatever you wanna call it, guard spot. I like him more as a catch-and-shooter, and less as a dribbler.
Mr. Jordan was once said the toughest defender he ever played against was Joe Dumars. If Foye ever gets to that point I'll eat my keyboard. I really like Foye, but Dumars was on a different level.
Then again, maybe I don't want Foye to turn out like Joe D; he'll end up running the team and in the 2020 draft will take an unproven Serbian stiff with the #2 overall pick in front of two all-stars and a Finals MVP.
While Steve points out the one, huge mistake Dumars has made, I would be thrilled to have a GM that has made all the successful moves Dumars has made in the last 5 years:
The signing of Chauncey Billups
The trade to acquire Richard Hamilton
The drafting of Tayshaun Prince (23rd pick)
The guts to dump Chris Weber when it was clear his skills were declining
The guts to sign Antonio McDyess to the full mid level exception after his injuries
Hiring Flip Saunders
The risk of trading for high maintenance Rasheed Wallace
Integrating a number of recent, very late draft choices into an aging roster
I guess your right - would certainly not want Foye to turn out like that!!
JAF:
Yeah, I took the cheap shot. I had quite a bit more written down, however when I posted my computer froze and I had to rewrite my comment. I do recognize he has made very good moves, however you are missing the following counterpoints:
1) Hiring Flip hasn't done much for them, they have had an outstanding team in a weak conference and have only been to the Finals once (where they lost to the Spurs in seven) since Flip took over. They got their ring with Larry Brown, not Mr. Saunders.
2) While he did dump Webber when his skills were declining, you must remember who brought him to Detroit in the first place. C-Webb averaged 11pts and 6 boards his season in Detroit...his skills were on the decline long before he was in a Pistons uniform.
3) He drafted Rodney White 9th overall in 2001. Yikes.
All in all, I agree Dumars stint as a GM has been much more productive than let's say McHale's, however he was much better as a player than a front-office exec, and the Darko pick cost them at least one more title, if not two or three.
Yike. Hiring Flip has not done much for them? A .718 winning percentage (3rd best in the last 3 years behind only SA and Dallas) and 3 Conference Finals in a row. Accomplished with a high maintenance roster that was on the serious decline under Larry Brown. I think Flip has done more than say, 27 other NBA coaches. Yes, they got their ring under Brown. But to say Flip has not done much for them is a huge stretch.
The Pistons were only 21–15 before Webber was acquired; with him, the team went 32–14 and earned top seed in the East. Based on that, I say Dumars made a mighty fine decision.
I agree, Rodney White - ugh.
But I would trade McHale, staff, 6 draft choices and millions of Taylor's dollars to have Dumars and Flip running the T-wolves.
On its face, the Melo pick seems astronomically better than Darko, but it probably would've cost them that first title vs. LA. That team was 100% based on team chemistry that a gunner like Melo would've disrupted at least enough to prevent them from beating the Kobe-Shaq-Payton-Malone team that beat the best Wolves team in history the round before.
In the years after that one, Melo may have gelled, but he may not have. Maybe Chauncey Billups never becomes Finals MVP, which catapulted his career into stardom. All in all, I think Detroit came out pretty good in spite, and in some ways because of, the Darko pick, even if having Melo, Bosh or Wade would have added more talent to their roster.
JAF- While I agree that Flip hasn't been awful, you have to concede that the Pistons have had THE team in the Eastern conference since 03-04 and on. Sure, the Heat would have been a tough out two seasons ago, however I'm not sure even Wittman would have let Lebron torch his team for 48 in game 5 last year. That was brutal. I would like to think Detroit's success has/had more to do with the squad and not the coach. Granted, that would fly in the face of my initial argument about Dumars as a GM. It's at this point that I will go to the corner and stand for 15 minutes; my original comment wasn't well thought-out. Thanks for calling me on it.
Andy G- Bosh, Melo, or Wade wouldn't have helped Detroit more than Darko? I can agree to a point in the championship year, however Bosh and Wade would have absolutely been upgrades willing to file whatever role the squad needed. Wade is a winner through and through, and Bosh would have saved them copius cash in lieu of the McDyess/Webber moves. I'm also not sold on Melo being more of a detriment than a seven-foot 11th man. Melo may have gotten them past the Spurs in 05, which a guy drinking Gatorade on the end of the bench could certainly not do. The chemistry argument only goes so far; the 80's Celtics were a huge chemistry team and I'm pretty sure Len Bias would have been an improvement.
Obviously any of those players would have helped more than Darko, in an individual/statistical sense, since he barely got a minute of action in his stint in D-Town. My main point is that it's all speculation, when in fact, there was a championship won after that pick, and they continue to consider themselves contenders five years later. The Billups-Hamilton-Prince-Wallace core of that team has an offensive identity that doesn't necessarily benefit from adding a young superstar that's eager to show off his talents each night. It would certainly add to their depth, and raise their potential "ceiling," if you will, but since it's speculation, you could reasonably wonder if a guy like Carmelo or D-Wade would have been more of a detriment than benefit to the offensive synergy of that group. Plus, neither can defend like Billups or Prince. The strongest case can be made for Bosh, since just about any team can easily plug in a star big man without much disruption.
To illustrate my point, look at the last "Dream Team." Remember how, after they took 4th Place (I think that's what it was) experts kept saying they should have just taken the Detroit Pistons instead of that collection of stars? When you have offensive and defensive chemistry, it's worth a lot more than five great one-on-one players, and a quick comparison of Detroit/San Antonio vs. a team like Denver shows that pretty clearly. Again, not saying Melo/Wade/Bosh don't bring a title, or additional titles to Detroit, just that it's no guarantee.
I hope someday we can talk about a Wolves bothced draft pick and whether it would have brought us *additional* championships.
So, Brandon Roy is really good, better than Randy Foye thus far.
Yes, I feel the need to point out that if Joel Pryzbilla played for the wolves (or maybe even Theo Ratliff) Roy might not have found it so easy to finish at the rim last night. In fact, he might have found it wise to pull up and try to hit a short jumper. Maybe he makes it. or maybe he makes a nice pass to another player.
Foye, on the other hand, got his shot blocked and altered because the Blazer's actually have a good interior defense. Maybe he should have passed (that worked well with Gomes earlier! ha!) or pulled up for the short jumper, but Portland's bigs made a big difference.
Also, don't forget that in 2 years, Roy has about 5 times as much playing time as Foye, so he's learned things about his game and the game that Foye simply couldn't be expected to.
I totally agree that our beloved Wolfies lack interior presence. As illustrated by the Wolves being at or near the bottom of the league in # of free throws allowed/game.
There is so much pressure on Al to score on most offensive possessions, that having the energy to dominate the paint on defense - especially at the ends of games is extremely difficult.
HASHEEM THABEET...
Let Foye play the point more... He's serviceable there and needs the experience.
Love the writing on this site from all of you. I felt the need to agree wholeheartedly with Nate.
I would love the vanilla gorilla in a wolves uniform.
As we've learned from the Wolves front office, there's an excuse for everything. But at this point it's foolish to try to rationalize trading Roy for Foye because one is clearly better than the other in every way.
Here's a depressing thought: The Wolves could have a line-up of Beno Udrih, Brandon Roy, Al Thornton, Big Al and (insert random role player center) right now. If they had that, Wittman's decision to make McCants a 6th man would make sense.
As it is I think it is a big mistake to give up on McCants as a starter, especially on a team with this few scorers. What's the purpose of giving big burn to Synder and Gomes, or even Marko at this point? None of them will be here if/when this team becomes competent again.
Nate--
All true, and valid points. But, all things being equal, you're far more likely to draw the foul on your finish, or to be able to shoot over your defender on your pull-up J, if you're 6-6 instead of 6-4.
As I said in the trey, Foye is inferior only by comparison, and that's not his fault. The bottom line for me is that the Wolves felt they had a combo guard a la Dwyane Wade in Foye, which may still be true, but didn't realize Roy has the same potential. From what I've seen of both, Roy is a more natural "point guard" than Foye, and two inches taller besides. None of which negates the fact that Randy Foye elevates his game in the clutch and has the potential to develop something special with Jefferson--who, if we're drawing teammate comparisons here, opens space on the perimeter better than any Trailblazer.
So the McCants lovefest is over? That was brief. I guess the guy has to play a perfect game every night or else he is a goat.
That airball at the end of the game was ugly, but not a choke. If we want and need McCants to hit a three in the clutch, how about a pass or a screen to free him up?
We inbounded the ball to him at the perimeter in double coverage with the game clock ticking in a situation where we needed a quick three. Seriously, how is he supposed to free himself up, and take a three, and get it off quickly enough to keep time on the clock? It would have been a miracle shot.
As Andy G points out below, no way we are even in this game without Shaddy's 8-12 shooting night.
RL--
As far as I'm concerned, the McCants lovehatefest is as permanent as the tattoos on his body announcing the friction. I've given up taking a stable position on the guy and am growing to accept him for what he is--the best perimeter scorer on the ballclub by a country mile, a player capable of fabulous bouts of play, and a person with low tolerance and high paranoia on how he imagines the world is treating him.
Like it or not, Peter is right about the lack of closeout on Jones--without knowing the defensive scheme, I don't want to totally lay the blame here, but if it was man to man and Shaddy had Jones, you have to know he's a classic catch-and-shoot guy from beyond the arc, and if it was a zone (didn't look like it), then Shaddy had responsibility for that wing portion of the floor. And neither one of us mentioned the push-off offensive foul, followed by the petulant carrying the ball down the court until he got a delay of game--and was risking a T, with a three point lead and 5 minutes to play.
Yes, McCants's deadeye was a key factor in keeping the score close. Ditto Marko's 4-5 FG in the first quarter, Craig Smith's zone-busting 6-8 FG in the second quarter, and Ryan Gomes' 10 points in the third (only 3-8 FG but, what a concept, he got to the line 3 times). Smith's 15 points in 23:58 on 9 shots is actually more efficient than Shaddy's 18 in 32:35 on 12 shots--and Smith doubled his assist total, outrebounded him by 5 and didn't turn the ball over.
Nobody was asking McCants to play a "perfect" game. But the subject of the point in the trey was lack of crunchtime capability, and among the Wolves' three cornerstone scorers, McCants ranks a distant third until he proves otherwise.
Britt,
We were man to man and Shaddy committed the cardinal sin of basketball - he turned his head to see the play causing him to lose sight of Jones. Terrible fundamental play.
We talk about the lack of clutch offense - a very valid point. But what is far more distressing is the lack of clutch defense. You have:
Shaddy losing track of Jones for the 3
3 offensive rebounds given up during Portland's run due to lack of blocking out
No help side on Roy leaving Brewer/Synder a lone on the penetration resulting in 2 key Roy baskets and 1 kick out assist.
This all occurred between the 4min and 1:30 min mark - leading to a 5 point Portland lead (95-90).
Make these fundamental defensive plays and guess what - you are still in the game even if the offense is sputtering in the clutch. Don't make the plays, well, you simply lose.
It is one of the things that I really miss from last year under Casey - the stronger on the ball defense.
I think I'm pretty neutral on all things Foye--I think he's a very good perimeter shooter, solid penetrator, but also just an average passer. Also, I've considered myself to be in the group that thinks we should wait before making the Roy/Foye comparisons. Anyway, attending last night's game probably shifted me toward the Brandon Roy Fan Club, which most Wolves fans joined after he was named Rookie of the Year last season. I've attended both Portland games this year, and the first time I came away in (what I now know, or at least suspect was) major Brandon Roy Denial. I saw his fundamentals (like last night's curl screen lay-up that I'm not sure you've seen a Wolf besides Corey Brewer make all season), his nice jumpshot, and steady floor game, but noticeable lack of flash and dominating presence. This made me think that he gets too much credit, and his teammates that surround him too little, for Portland's surprising success.
Well, last night I saw all those same qualities manifested in another Portland win, and now suspect that he uses them and turns them into productivity on an every-night basis. His best scoring plays may not look as pretty as Foye's runners-off-the-glass, but his spin moves in the paint (especially the one that ended in a pass that JP dropped out of bounds) are a beauty to watch. Also, his posture with the ball looks more more suitable for a point or combo guard than Foye. My friend, who doesn't watch much basketball, pointed out that Foye looks like a "halfback" out there, and that was sort of enlightening to me. He squares his shoulders to whatever direction he's headed, and if that's to the basket, he's able to use his strength to get up decent shots. But, if it's dribbling off a ball-screen, or just surveying the floor as a point, it doesn't look natural. Most point guards look more like soccer players than halfbacks, with more upright posture so they're in a real triple-threat position with the ball. At any point when Roy is dribbiling, he's equally threatening as a shooter, passer, or penetrator, since he's balanced and poised to do each effectively. That football/soccer analogy might be overly critical of Foye's PG abilities, but I'd be interested to hear what others think of it. I get the same impression when I watch Steve Nash play--that he always looks upright, ready to move all directions--not just head down straight ahead.
Other quick thoughts on last night's game:
I love McCants as the 6th man even more than I originally thought I would. His smooth skill-set isn't well-suited for late game situations, since teams toughen up the D and dare you to draw fouls, but he racks up so many points off the bench that it's hard to argue he's one of our best players. Without him last night, we lose by 15 in a game that has fans turning off their televisions 30 minutes early.
Brewer's O-rebound in the final minutes was the type of play that, if made by Robert Horry or Bruce Bowen in the playoffs, you'd hear analysts raving about all night. Since it was the TWolves, it was a regular season game, and Gomes negated it with a travel, but I like to think (or hope) that one day Brewer will have a reputation as a key ingredient of a champion. His shot looked bad again, though.
So I scored a ticket to an executive suite last night which, by the way, you can get for free these days if you tell the right story. We had a host from the Timberwolves who stopped by to make sure that everything was OK. His name was Stanley Jackson who, I was told, was the backup point guard to Pooh Richardson. So I asked him if the front offices reads the comments of Britt Robson who is the best writer about the Timberwolves in the Twin Cities. And he said "Who?" which pretty much answered my question. He actually said, "They probably read Sid Hartman's column more than anyone else." I told him that was like drinking your own kool-aid.
So the program in the Executive Suite included the names of the limited partners. I had never seen it before. Here they are: William Beiber, Ralph Burnet, Dennis Frandsen Wynn Kearney, Fred Lutz, Burton McGlynn, John Moore, Pinky McNamara, Thomas Moore, Teri Popp, Bill Popp, Joyce Sexton, William Sexton, Glenda Taylor-Huston. How can these pillars of the business community continue to be respected when they haven't fired somone for taking Foye over Roy? Why should I care about the Timberwolves when they don't care if they have competent employees running the organization?
Jerry--
I appreciate the kind words but, as I've said before, I'm under no illusions that I know as much about basketball as the folks in the front office, and would be nervous if McHale, Hoiberg, et. al. seriously took the counsel on anything I *or* Sid Hartman wrote.
That said, congrats on scoring the suite. I always find it ironic--for football, baseball, and hockey as well as hoops--that most everybody in those fancy digs is usually either talking to each other or watching the television while the game goes on outside their bubble. It's hard not to.
Attended the game last night (my second o' the year) and two things jumped out at me:
Pryzbilla deserves a ton of credit for his defense on Big Al - among the best I've seen.
Aldridge looked like he could've scored a million points against the Wolves bigs. While I wasn't surprised Roy took over at the end (with some nifty three-point shooting by James Jones), I was surprised LaMarcus somewhat disappeared from the scoring as the game wore on.
Sure made me wish the Wolves had Greg Oden, not the Blazers.
If KG were still on the club, we'd have to engage in some friendly jousting about the "inaccurate" failure to launch notion. That comes more from the excesses of hero worship than disciplined reasoning. We'll see what happens in the playoffs this year, because the only excuse KG has left is the fact they had to re-animate PJ Brown and Cassell to provide late fourth-quarter toughness and leadership. The potion may end by the Eastern Conference finals, with the bones of old ballers strewn about the court, and the skeletal head of Cassell still yapping at the referees. For his sake, I hope Garnett rises to the occasion.
We can look at the Roy/Foye comparison in accomplishment years; currently the score is 2-0 in favor of Roy. Right now, he's better in every single basketball category than Foye. It doesn't mean Randy won't come back some year, but I think his hope that by the end of their careers people will forget who drafted them is wishful thinking. This is turning out to be as bad of a decision as the "ignore Howard, choose Ebi" pick of a couple of years ago. Anyway you slice it, a Foye/McCants or Telfair/Foye backcourt is pretty small for a significant playoff or championship club. Jaric couldn't be starting for a real club, could he?
The size on this team is becoming an overall factor, from front-court to back. It's going to take some measure of undiscovered grit for the Wolves to compete against teams like Portland or Toronto, who are long, shoot from the perimeter well, and have interior shotblockers. Plus, you have posers like "Three Quarter" McCants who score for awhile, but don't close out on defense or finish in the clutch. The back-breaker in last night's game was the James Jones three with about 1:27 remaining in the game, with McCants failing to close out on Jones. He tries so hard to make it look good, but the swivel head award has been passed from Wally to Rashad. In the LA game he teased me with some real ability to make plays, especially for other teammates, but last night was throwback to his old ways: score early, choke late.
I don't think it's accurate or fair to compare the Foye draft decision to the Ebi one. In the Roy/Foye case, McHale selected one of two seasoned college players, the one he thought would fit the team better (rightly or wrongly), and one who has thus far given the team a fair amount of production (even if it's not as much as the guy they passed over has given his team).
In the case of Ebi over Howard, McHale took "potential" over an outstanding college player (I believe that Howard was ACC POY his final season), a guy who might possibly have helped down the line over a guy who could have helped KG and the team more immediately. Obviously, that did not work out, nor should it have been expected to at the time.
Regardless of the initial rationale of either choice, you can't argue with the fact that Foye has provided the team with something whereas Ebi gave them nothing other than a bench-warmer.