Copyright 2008 NBAE (Photo by David Sherman/NBAE via Getty Images)
Game #51, Home Game #26: LA Lakers 117, Minnesota 92
Season record: 10-41
1. Every Position
Coach Randy Wittman was fairly nonchalant after his team got pasted by 25 points in a game that wasn't even *that* close. But nobody could, or did, blame him, really: It was hard to tell how badly or well the Wolves had played because the Lakers looked like supermen. "This is a team playing extremely well," Wittman understated with a shrug. "We had a hard time matching up with them at every position."
Every one. Al Jefferson played well; Pau Gausol was just a little more efficient, getting his 19 points on 9-11 FG while Jefferson was 9-18 FG. Jefferson had two assists but only one block; Gausol had nada dimes by a trio of rejections. It was at best a wash, with both ensconced on the bench for an entire 4th quarter of garbage time that found 14th man Coby Karl going up for not one but two alley-oops--Bostjan Nachbar envy, no doubt.
Randy Foye took advantage of the blowout to do what he does regardless of the score: jack up shots. He had 16 of them in 28:43, giving him 75 heaves in 182 minutes. Four players on the team shoot more frequently. Jefferson is first, and justifiably so, given that he has 206 offensive rebounds and all those immediately chances for putbacks. McCants is second, and justifiably so, given that he's the team's most explosive and accurate perimeter shooter. The other two are clueless and past-his-prime, Gerald Green and Antoine Walker, and this, sad to say, is Foye's current neighborhood. His 34.7% shooting is between Green's 33.1% and Walker's 36.6%; throw in Corey Brewer's 35.4% and Sebastian Telfair's 39.3% and the Wolves have already logged well over 4,000 minutes of playing time for sub-40% shooters thus far this year and we didn't even pile on with Greg Buckner or Mark Madsen.
We are supposed to be patient with Foye. Fine. If he is having trouble shooting and having trouble defending, what about a little court vision? Well, he still has more turnovers than assists and the Lakers trapped him into difficulty a handful of times last night. What? Are you sure he's only been back 8 games? Well, okay, but if the performance curve doesn't start to rise soon, I'm going to start pointing out that McCants, coming off microfracture surgery, had a better 2007 than Foye's 2008 thus far.
I can tell I'm unfairly impatient with Foye--who was 3 assists/1 turnover the other night although totally stymied by the trap--because with the possible exception of Jefferson, *nobody* on the Wolves had a good game. Corey Brewer had four steals but was absolutely abused by Kobe--who was psychologically playing for Brewer's mindset in 2010-11 as much as this season, backing him down whenever he felt like it or simply driving past him. Too strong, too quick. And Kobe had an off night.
Ryan Gomes continued his recent series of disappearing acts, and was on the floor for the Lakers' 39-point third quarter. Jaric and Telfair were a combined 3-11 FG. Meanwhile, Lamar Odom had a casual triple-double of 10 points, 16 board and 10 assists.
More fun facts: The Wolves and Lakers each had 93 shot attempts, but the similarity ends there as LA not only had seven more field goals but 10 more makes at the line, owing to the foul disparity--the Wolves committed 27, the Lakers 11, and while some of those whistles were Kobe worship (he was 13-13 FTs) more of it was a slower, smaller team trying to hold on, and hack, for dear life. due to the garbage time drought of just 18 4th quarter points after registering 99 in the first three, the Lakers finished with just 29 assists, the smallest total for a Wolves opponent in the past three games. No wonder everyone at Target Center--coaches, players, fans, media--were ready to get the hell out of there and flake out until next week. All except the Lakersm of course, who just finished a 7-2 road trip on ultracruise, an inordinately talented, confident and happy team that can play big, play small, play pretty or play gritty; a team that has caused Phoenix and Dallas to blow up their squads beyond all reason (Devean George apparently may save Dallas); a team that will give the Spurs all it can handle should we be lucky enough to see those teams fulfill their potentials and meet in the conference finals.
Which brings me to my fly-by-night "midseason honors."
2. Midseason honors
Best in the East
C Dwight Howard
PF Kevin Garnett
SF LeBron James
SG Paul Pierce (I know he's a 3, but he can play here)
PG Chauncey Billups (Yes, over Kidd. Billups shoots 45.3% to Kidd's 36.7%, turns the ball over less than half as much, and plays better D. That overcomes Kidd's extra 5 rebounds and 3 assists per game. So does the extra 16 wins Detroit has over NJ. Oh, and Calderon is on the second team ahead of Kidd.)
Best in the West
C Tyson Chandler (Way better than overrated Yao and no-D Amare)
PF Tim Duncan (The toughest call, over Boozer)
SF Carmelo Anthony
SG Kobe Bryant
PG Steve Nash (But in the playoffs give me Deron Williams. And I'm damning Chris Paul with faint praise by mentioning him only now.)
Rookie of the Year: Sean Williams of New Jersey is the best rookie I've seen.
Most Improved: Lamarcus Aldridge, with Chris Kaman second.
Coach of the Year: Phil Jackson
GM of the Year: Mitch Kupchak
6th Man: Manu
3. Silver Lining
Because I'll be cross country skiing all weekend and letting the board run amok, here's some red meat to chew on. I just read somewhere, think it was the wonderful True Hoop about three days ago, that the Wolves have three of the top 31 draft picks if the standings were to hold firm. That includes a stud at #2 and a chance for a lucky hit at #30 and #31. My opinion of the Wolves' top needs:
1) A center who plays stalwart D
2) A dynamic small forward who can get his own shot and play uptempo or half court
3) An aggressive but pure point guard
See you next week.
'Bostan Nachbar envy" kills me
I have a question...assuming the wolves don't get one of the theoretical 2 "can't miss" prospects in Rose or Beasley, wouldn't this be the definition of a team that can draft a "prospect" like DeAndrew Jordan (a Bynum like comparison in a lot of draft profiles) who may not help next year.
I think if we want to have a long successful run we need to be in the lottery and hit big on a couple prospects. The only long term for sure spot we have locked up is Al Jefferson at PF. If we draft a C who is a bit of a project, but could be a force in 3-4 years, Jefferson would be just coming into his prime, and we hopefully could have another lottery player to go with whoever stays from Foye, Brewer, McCants, Smith, Telfair (in that order for me).
Just daydreaming...feel free to add to, or rip apart my idea.
I think you're correct in that we are a team that can afford to take a risk. Not completely though because we've got little tradeable assets left that would give us another shot at getting a center. But we could take a risk if it's worth it.
The fact is that first of all, we have a lot of chance to have a top 2 pick, in the case we don't, there are other players that might fit almost as good and don't have that much risk...
Moreso, there are a lot of talented centers that could be picked up with a mid first rounder. It's always more comfortable to take a risk with a mid first rounder than with a top 5 pick. Thabeet, Devin Hardin, Hibbert. At least one of them should still be available somewhere around 20. So if we could somehow trade to get someone's 20-25 pick it would be a much better situation to draft on certainty with the top5 and take a center with the mid first...
Brit,
Usually love your analysis, but Nash over D. Williams over Chris Paul is, well, if you and I were both GMs I think you'd probably stop doing trades with me after a season or two where I keep winning even though you keep giving me all the "bad" players for all of my "good" players.
Seriously, what? Deron shoots more efficiently than Paul.
....and there we have it. That is the one (and only) category that Deron is better in.
Let's look at some per48 stats:
Williams Paul Nash
PTS 24.8 26.3 24.2
RB 3.9 5.1 4.9
AST 12.6 14 16.3
STL 1.49 3.29 1.01
BLK 0.34 0.05 0.08
TO 4.5 3.4 5.4
PF 3.1 3 1.9
Not to pick on him, because he's being compared to the best here, but you might notice that your man Williams is last in every category but steals, scoring, and the near-meaningless blocks category. Yet you'd rather have him in the playoffs (where, I might add, that steals, rebounds, fouls, and turnovers start to matter a heck of a lot more than eFG%).
In other words, if we were doing a trade of Williams for Paul, you're going
to give up 1 rebound, 2 assists and 2 steals a game, and commit an extra turnover a game in order to block .3 shots a game and shoot about 40% better on about 15 shots a game, which amounts to about .62 points per game. Heck, we'll say the difference in shooting % is worth 2 points a game because it negates a fast break or two that other team might get off of one of Paul's misses. So, you think 1 rebound, 2 assists, 2 steals, and one less turnover are going to net you more than 2 points a game?
REALLY? Brit, I know you are smarter than that. Come on.
One other topic that I forgot to mention about the LA game: the minutes of Gerald Green. For anyone who was at the game, or was somehow still watching on tv in the 4th, GG got some burn at the end of the game.
I was probably unfairly harsh in my criticism a while back, basically saying that he looks like he's never played basketball before. However, after seeing him up close for a little stretch against LA's bench, I'm still comfortable watching him walk this off-season. His slumped shoulders and droopy demeanor don't impress me at all, especially while watching him alongside the upright posture and overall intensity of Corey Brewer. Green's one-on-one moves allow him to get his own shot, but that shot is usually a fall-back jumper from some distance. It really looks like he patterns his game around T-Mac, almost to a scary degree of similarity, except that T-Mac is much more intense than he looks and gets easy baskets to mix in with the tough jumpers.
Obviously, there's a lot of disagreement about this guy--to me, he can only be productive with the ball, and he's not good enough to run your offense through. A guy like Brewer can make things happen without the ball, and let you run your offense through Jefferson and (future superstar we end up with this draft).
Rob Brittson:
I take a bit different approach to the team's needs. I view them as having more functional, rather than positional, needs. They are out free-throwed (not a word) by 8 points/game and they are one of the worst perimeter shooting teams in recent NBA memory, as your list of sub-40% shooters makes clear.
If the rebuilding plan goes well (hope, hope), this year's top pick should be the only top-5 pick the Wolves get their hands on. I'd like to believe that they will improve enough to get out of the bottom-10 teams in the league and give the pick back to the Clips. Even if they don't, they'll likely be back in the 7-10 range. Because of this, I don't think the club should get bogged down in positional needs as much as they should concentrate on finding a player that can fit the FTA/FG% bill....especially when there's no clear-cut center/point at the top of the draft (and no, Derrick Rose is not a clear-cut point).
That being said, I'm 100% on board with your take that a solid 5 and 3 are the Wolves' 2 biggest positional needs. I'd flip them around, but here's how I get to that conclusion from a functional point of view...
Borrowing a bit from a future Canis Hoopus post, here's how some of the top rated players that will likely enter next year's draft fare in the Wolves' biggest needs (5's and 3/2's):
FTA/40 min:
1- Michael Beasley (10)
2- Hasheem Thabeet (7.4)
3- Roy Hibbert (7.3)
4- Chris Douglas Roberts (7.2)
5- Deandre Jordan (7.2...he makes less than 40% of these)
6- Donte Green (4.9)
7- Chase Budinger (4.5)
eFG%:
1- Deandre Jordan (65%...all dunks and putbacks)
2- Hasheem Thabeet (64%)
3- Roy Hibbert (61%)
4- Michael Beasley (59%)
5- CDR (59%)
6- Chase Budinger (52%)
7- Donte Green (51%)
3FG%:
1- CDR- (48.3)
2- Michael Beasley (43.6)
3- Chase Budinger (38%)
4- Donte Green (36.4%)
(centers don't take 3's)
3PA/FGA:
1- Donte Green (0.50)
2- Chase Budinger (0.43)
3- CDR (0.2)
4- Michael Beasley (0.15)
(centers don't take 3's)
FTA/FGA
1- Hasheem Thabeet (0.98)
2- Deandre Jordan (0.66...sub 40% FT shooter)
3- Roy Hibbert (0.56)
4- Michael Beasley (0.46)
5- CDR (0.43)
6- Donte Green (0.30)
7- Chase Budinger (0.28)
The first thing to note is that centers don't shoot 3's and that they bang in the paint so they *should* have higher FT numbers. The next thing you'll note is that in categories not dominated by centers (rightfully so), Beasley and CDR are the players of note. If the Wolves have the opportunity to draft Beasley, they 100% have to. There's no doubt about it. He gets to the line, hits the boards, and shoots the hell out of the ball. Should they fail at Beasley, Donte Green and/or one of the high-ceiling centers should be taken into consideration if they can't trade down. (I should also note that Danilo Gallinari is highly regarded and I hope that the Wolves have an international scouting operation). Budinger and CDR are not top-5 picks and could be had by trading up with the Wolves' stash of 2 top 2nd rounders, trade exception, 2 high 1st rounders next year, and Shaddy. They have a lot of small change assets that could be used to great effect in this draft.
Cutting to the chase, I think the ideal outcome of this draft is this:
-Top pick: Beasley, Green, or Gallinari (I think it's a must they grab a scoring 3 with this pick).
- Package small change assets for mid-level 1st rounder and draft CDR.
They then hope for the best in signing someone like Diop to fill the 5.
I really think they should do their best to get 3 picks in the 1st round of this year's draft. They have the assets to do it and they can get their core in place before they have to cough up their own #1 to the Clips. I'd love to see them move next year's Celts and Miami picks for a Thabeet or a Brook Lopez and then move the 2nd round picks and the trade exception + Shaddy (or Foye, but I doubt he'd be worth much) for CDR. That would give them the following rotation:
1- Telfair/Jaric
2- CDR/Foye/Brewer
3- Gomes/(Beasley/Green/Gallinari)/Brewer
4- Big Al/Rhino
5- (Thabeet/Lopez)/Big Al
Bassy would finally have someone to pass to, Big Al would have his backcourt buddy, and we'd finally have a big guard who can hit 3's on the perimeter and slash. He'll look a lot better when defenders can't sag 5-8 feet off the ball down towards Big Al when he's got CDR and (Beasley/Green/Gallinari) on the wing. His speed will be even more valuable with a spread floor.
I agree on a lot of your points SnP. They should defenitly try to get 3 picks in the first round and if they can get Beasly they should. Was just wondering. Could you like repost this with minutes? Something like this?
1- Telfair (30)/Jaric(18)
2- CDR(20)/Foye(20)/Brewer(8)
3- Gomes(20)/(Beasley/Green/Gallinari)(20)/Brewer(6)
4- Big Al(20)/Rhino(18)
5- (Thabeet/Lopez)(30)/Big Al(18)
You do plan to somewhere in the future get a PG right? With Jaric there..
Don't really like to play AJ at Center, I'd keep him full time at PF + one way or another, a lot of minutes for a guy like thabeet. Other than that, nice lineup.
Good idea on the minutes. I just cut and pasted from some stuff we have over at Canis Hoopus. I'll figure out a way to add projected minutes into our spreadsheet.
As for point guards, I think the Wolves are good as long as they can get a perimeter threat at the 2 and a scorer at the 3. Watch how opposing teams guard Bassy and Foye when they're on the court together. That's a high-school esque cushion (more so for Bassy). When it's just Bassy, watch how the guys defending Gomes, Jaric, and Big Al play their men when Bassy is on their side of the court. The reason why defenders can go completely high-school defense on Bassy isn't just because of him; it's because there's no one on the team that is a threat outside of the lane. Gomes isn't going to take anyone off the dribble. Marko isn't going to jab step into a j. Foye isn't going to go 4-7 from 3 in the vast majority of games. Right now, Al Jefferson is Adrian Peterson and opponents are putting 8-9 men in the box (is that a correct analogy? I hate football and I learn through osmosis in Viking Country.) With 3-5% more on his shot, and a few more scoring options, Bassy is a starting point (and a good one at that) in this league. Plus, with the amount of money locked up in Marko, it doesn't make sense to throw another $3-4 mil at a top pick at the point. Too much dinero. This is one of those situations where they should be gelling/getting good when Marko's money expires and they can then sign a veteran PG who is priced to move and can give the team some intangibles they may need (3p%, steals, whatever). Bassy is this team's point of the future. He's 22, he shoots just as well as Foye, is a better passer, better defender, and he doesn't appear to have a massive ego.
I guess I'm with the group that says take the best player available, and think about positions later. It's fun to draw up hypothetical lineups, but the fact of the matter is that we're a 10-41 team with only one player that can fully expect to be here long-term. Sorry if that sounded like Stephen A. Smith.
Also, this argument gets beaten to death almost as bad as anything-KG, but I'd take major issue with Bassy shooting "just as well as Foye." I realize this year's % numbers aren't good in Foye's 8 game rehab period, but he did shoot 37% from downtown in his rookie year. His form is much better than Telfair, and he shoots with much more confidence. Those things lead me to believe that his career as a shooter will improve quicker than a hesitant player with a flying right elbow and unusually flat wrist position on his jumpshot.
Also, where does Foye's "massive ego" come from? Is it just from playing with confidence, because I've never seen him screaming at players/coaches, demanding trades, or doing anything stupid in front of a camera.
The only thing worse than picking Randy Foye over Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay would be to see him leave and become better than those two players on a different team. See Chauncey Billups. Nobody knows what his injury/conditioning status is, so let's give the guy a break for a few more weeks--he's only in his second season.
"I guess I'm with the group that says take the best player available, and think about positions later. It's fun to draw up hypothetical lineups, but the fact of the matter is that we're a 10-41 team with only one player that can fully expect to be here long-term. Sorry if that sounded like Stephen A. Smith."
...if you really want to sound like Stephen A. Smith, you have to do this:
I'M PROBABLY A BIT OVERBOARD WITH THE MASSIVE EGO THING. IT'S MORE OF ME THINKING THAT FOYE IS A 3RD GUARD/6TH MAN RATHER THAN A STARTER. I STAND CORRECTED.
Stephen A. Smith off :)
As for Foye's shooting, check out his college numbers. He's never been a good shooter. 40% from the field and 33% from the college 3. Between he and Shaddy, one of those guys can be a good 3rd guard/6th man.
Good point--anything Stephen A has to be all caps.
The Foye college numbers are telling, to a point, but I still like his jumper and think he'll be an impact player once he's back in full-swing. It was more in response to writing that Bassy's an equal shooter to Foye--Foye's FG% could be 10 below Bassy and I wouldn't make that claim, just because of Foye's pure stroke and Bassy's technical flaws and clear lack of confidence. With time, that will lead to more favorable stats for Randy. Bassy certainly runs the offense better than Foye, at least in terms of ball control, but the ceiling is higher for the guy who can knock down shots and finish strong at the rim. His passing should improve with experience. Who knows, if they fall in love with a different guard during pre-draft workouts, maybe Foye will get shipped in a trade. I just hope that any move like that comes after we see the healthy Randy Foye.
Regarding the draft, I've already made my case for Rose and against Beasley (though I really do appreciate those numbers, SnP). I'd either like to have Rose, or make a move at Memphis to take Lowry, whom I also like (and he fits with our offense - Lowry is shooting a hair under .400 this season). If the Grizz are going to do the rebuilding thing and move Miller, they'll need a combo-type SG, and McCants or Foye might be tempting for them. Also, the draft is a crapshoot anyway - Boston and Memphis were supposed to have #1 and #2 this year and take the NBA's next saviors. Instead of rebuilding with youth, after Boston lost the draft they went the opposite way - dumping their youth to us and Seattle for proven, established players, and now they have the best record in basketball.
I honestly prefer addressing the guard situation through the draft, and finding bigs through free agency. And, if we pretend that Gomes and Brewer are our combined SFs of the future, that clearly is not our biggest weakness - we need solid shooting from our guard positions, and an interior defender to complement Al. I think if we can address the "defensive center" spot via free agency (rather than grooming a pick), it will help us immediately and build defensive confidence across the board.
Here's more cut-and-paste concerning point prospects and their Wolves-relevant stats:
FTA/40:
1- DJ Augustin (5.7)
2- Derrick Rose (5.3)
3- Ty Lawson (4.5)
4- Darren Collison (4.5)
5- Kyle Weaver (4.2)
PPR:
1- Ty Lawson (5.53)
2- DJ Augustin (3.01)
3- Darren Collison (2.03)
4- Kyle Weaver (1.68)
5- Derrick Rose (-0.16)
Reb%:
1- Kyle Weaver (19%)
2- Derrick Rose (11.2%)
3- DK Augustin (9.7%...give his height, this is amazing)
4- Darren Collison (8.6%)
5- Ty Lawson (7.8%)
eFG:
1- Ty Lawson (64%)
2- Derrick Rose (55%)
3- Darren Collison (54%)
3 (tie)- Kyle Weaver (54%)
5- DJ Augustin (49%)
3FG%:
1- Kyle Weave (46%)
2- Darren Collison (42%)
3- Ty Lawson (36%)
4- DJ Augustin (35%)
5- Derrick Rose (34%)
A few notes: DJ Augustin has taken 120 3's this year. Rose has 58, Lawson has 55, Collison has 49, and Weaver 41. Volume-wise, his percentage is probably the most transferable to the NBA. Collison and Weaver are tremendous defenders and Rose's FTA numbers may be out of whack because of the offense Memphis runs (i.e. drive after drive after drive after drive).
Lawson's injury has shown how valuable he is to UNC's offense, but he is an up-tempo player who makes his living on pushing the ball...even on out-of-bounds plays. I'm not sure how this would translate to Big Al ball.
Collison, Weaver, and Lawson are probably the value picks of the bunch. Augustin has shown that he wasn't dependent on Durrant and Rose is mega-hyped so they will probably be the 1st 2 points taken.
Weaver has one big red flag in that he plays in a 3 guard lineup where much of his offense comes off of slashes (as does Rose's). Rose and Weaver are definitely the combo guards of the bunch while Augustin, Lawson, and Collison are pure points.
Good info SnP.
However, is it really fair to raise the question about Rose's FTs possibly being skewed by Calipari's offense without acknowleding that it may be having the same affect on his assist totals? I think you're reading a bit TOO far into the stats in this case, because even the guys at DX throw out those qualifiers. To not do so seems more than a bit unfair.
We don't need to get into it too much here, but cut him some slack. The offense is almost entirely based around perimeter players creating 1 on 1, and I haven't seem them run a pick and roll once all season. Of course his numbers (and accordingly his PPR) is going to take a hit. I agree that they sort of use him like a combo, but again that's the offense. I've seen enough at this point that I'm convinced he has true PG instincts. He knows where his team is at all times and is looking to find them for easy shots, both in transition and in the half court, as opposed to someone like Foye who looks for his own shot first and tends to make either the easy (swing it around the perimeter) or the obvious (hey, a guy's wide open under the hoop!) pass.
Fair enough. I won't complain much if they draft him. It's just that they have sooooo many other needs....well, let's put it this way: Big Al is the only legit starter so unless they draft Kevin Love or Blake Griffin, it would be hard to screw this thing up.
That being said, Rose's selection presents this squad with some less than choice backcourt/personnel options. Not only will they have pulled a Detroit Lions/Matt Millen and taken a 6'4" guard in 3 of the last 4 drafts, but they will be 6'4" across the backcourt with no help on the wing and no big gain in perimeter shooting. I know Randy Foye was billed as a combo guard in last year's draft, but I think Rose fits the bill more so than Foye as he's a Dwayne Wade type player that can give you 20/5/5. Again, happy to have him, but it only serves to remind everyone how poor the past few drafts have been in regards to selecting undersized backcourt players.
I agree that the Memphis offense bites both ways and that he does seem to have good court sense. He's clearly miles ahead of Foye in that regard. That being said, this is the Wolves big pick in the KG trade and if they want a true point, I just don't think the track record is there to take a guy this high...or a point at all. Chris Paul and DWill are nice, but you can get it done with much less when you have a strong 4, a scoring 3, and a big perimeter threat from the 2. As for the 1 and 5, those can be the glue guys who play defense, control the tempo, and don't turn it over. I'd much rather see them walk away with a scoring 3 and a big 2 like CDR than worry about where to fit in Foye, Marko, and (hopefully) Bassy with Rose.
Is Rose a combo guard?
I certainly don't know. But maybe Chad Ford of ESPN does?
The best pure point guard in the draft draws some comparisons to Deron Williams. However, Rose is actually more athletic. Looks like a lock for a top-five pick if he can lead Memphis deep into the NCAA Tournament this season. (from ESPN insider)
Of course, John Hollinger crunches some numbers and says that Rose doesn't make the top 20 college prospects because
"ecause his assist ratio is so low the computer sees him as an undersized shooting guard."
*Taking a point guard seems like a risk, however, because it would really suck for the wolves to draft yet another 6-4 shooting guard after Foye and McCants. But the draft is always a risk.
I've realized I didn't delineate the Chad Ford quote from the rest of the text.
Chad Ford only writes the one paragraph ending with (from ESPN insider).
Hollinger's contribution is in quotes and the rest is all Nate.
No, Rose is most definitely NOT a combo guard. You only need to watch him a bit and you'll see that he has a very solid passing game.
I was going to go into a big write up about why you should take Hollinger's draft analysis with a grain of salt, but it's just way too much work. Use it as you use any other tool, which is to say in conjunction with all other available metrics. Most important of all is to actually watch the prospects as much as possible, because stats do not tell all, especially in college where team contexts are rarely taken into account and the talent level is vastly different conference to conference and team to team.
I kinda feel there's a bit of a mix up between a "tweener" and a "combo". I feel like a tweener is someone who can play a bit of 2 positions but isn't really fit to play either.
I feel Foye is that kind of player. To small to be a "true" SG but not enough court vision/organisation/... to be a "true" PG.
A combo in my eyes is someone who can play either position. He's got the tools/attributes needed at either position. Someone like Mcgrady is in my eyes a combo (not a combo guard off course). He has the tools to play either at SG or at SF...
That being said, I've watched him play and feel like he's a combo at the college level but will defenitly not be neither a combo or a tweener at the NBA level. You need way better shooting skills to be a SG in the nba.
Am I right or am I completely striking out here?
I think that's about spot on. Very nice. Tweener has a negative connotation while combo is a good thing. Good distinction. I vote for Foye as a tweener.
I guess it's semantics. I think of a "tweener" as someone who doesn't have the requisite physical abilities to play the position best suited to their skill set, whereas a "combo" plays both but specializes in neither. I consider someone like Jamal Crawford a combo guard.. He's big enough to play the 2, but has the handle to play the 1 in a pinch, as opposed to someone like Kevin Martin who's pretty much a straight up 2 guard. However, I can't think of a combo that can play both spots equally well, at least when it comes to the PG and SG spots.
I don't consider Rose a combo, at least going by my definition, because he doesn't look to score like a 2 guard. When I watch him I see a guy who's trying to run the offense, not look for his own shot, a la Randy Foye. I'm just another rube, so what do I know, but so far the scouts agree that Rose is a true point. I mean you could run him at the 2, but he doesn't have the mindset. I'd say Mayo is a combo more than Rose.
Your defenition is actually probably better.
Though according to your defenition I would say Mayo is more of a tweener than a combo. His skillset is more that of a 2 while his physical attributes are more that of a one.
Rose has it more the other way around. He has the skillset of 1 but could also sort or less play -some- 2 (at the college level) because he also has the physicals of a (college) 2. His skills could also work for a 2.
Though I think everyone would agree he is best suited to play PG in the NBA. And I think that's the bottom line.
Though I am starting to seei what Britt and SnP are saying. While Rose seems to fill our positional need at the 1. We do have bigger deficiencies (jezus christ what a word) in our game that wouldn't be filled with Rose.
Also... I sure hope we'll all agree to join some kind of IRC chat channel or something when draft day comes so I won't have to try to explain to my (very uninterested) girlfriend who's who ^^.
Sorry to be replying to everything here, just haven't got anything else to do atm.
Well, you're right that we certainly have some glaring needs, most notably the hole in the middle. However, it comes back to the age-old question of draft strategy, specifically do you always draft the best player available or do you give some thought to need? There are plenty of guys I'd be happy with in this draft who I think will be good NBA players (like Greene, Lopez and Hibbert), I just don't see many who fill our biggest need and have that elusive "superstar" potential. This is exactly why I like Rose: I think he has the best combination of star potential and need-filling of anyone in the draft. Of course, he's cooling off of late, so who knows. I wish Jordan came out and looked like Groden 2.0, because man that would make things easier. I'm not a big fan of Beasley for numerous reasons, which I won't go into here (position, ability to coexist with Al, defense etc.).
As to Mayo, I dont't think he's a tweener. He doesn't have dominant size for the 2, but I hear he's a legit 6'5. The draft sites list him as such, and a guy who posts on rubechat who plays for UNC and has met Mayo confirms this (and he's 6'6, so he has a basis for comparison!). With his athleticism, he should be fine as a 2 in the NBA at that size.
I'd love to get in a chat room around draft time and chat it up. It'd be a blast.
"and while some of those whistles were Kobe worship"--that might be understating it a bit. I'm a huge Kobe fan, but it was frustrating how, immediately after his tech in the first quarter, five straight fouls were called when Kobe dribbled the ball anywhere. LA certainly didn't need any help from the refs, as they would've won regardless. On the flip side, it'd be nice to see McCants--(or Foye, if he ever gets better)--to attack like Kobe when their team is in the bonus. Those cheapies add up, as Kobe and D-Wade have shown their entire careers.
Jefferson abused Gasol. If a few of his usual baby-hooks would've dropped, he would've had a great line. As it was, most of his makes were dunks and lay-ins after spectacular head-fake sequences. LA surely realizes this deficiency--(at least with Bynum out)--because they've got a Rick Pitino-like press going that was surprisingly effective. It took the Wolves six or seven seconds just to cross half-court a few times, and helped prevent us from quickly setting up our low-post attack.
Finally saw SOMETHING from Foye against LA: some semi-prolific three-point shooting. He hit a string of threes somewhere in the 2nd half and his form and rhythm look great.
Andy G--
The first two times Jefferson went to the hoop, Gausol sealed off the baseline (first time) and blocked his shot (second time). After that, yes, Jefferson did his usual thing: aside from Dalembert and Bynum, I haven't seen a single opponent defend him effectively. But by your criteria, Gausol also "abused" Jefferson. How many wide open 6-footers did you see Pau drain in the first 1 and a half quarters?
Don't know who said anything about Foye and "massive ego," but it wasn't me. I like his confidence but I'd like it better if he realized that he needs to dish at least as much as drain the ball as he finds his legs and adjusts to a game-NBA pace. But you're right: He hit some threes--something, it should be noted, that Wittman continually has tried to discourage or at least deemphasize as part of his overall game.
I'd like to second your statement about the fouls. This was the first game I've attended this year, and it reminded me time and time again why I stopped going - the refs don't call it fair! Man, it sounds like sour grapes I know but why spend money when players aren't going to be allowed to compete?
I would disagree with you about Jefferson abusing Gasol, though. Gasol threw it back in his face a few times, and while Jefferson did put some nice moves on him Gasol did the same to big Al. I would say that Gasol won the individual battle (barely).
One thing I think the Wolves could use - a giant to foul the hell out of people when our other players are getting physically dominated. Brewer vs. Kobe and Derek Fisher vs. Bassy were physical mismatches, and maybe those players would have thought twice about backing our guys down so much. Watching an opposing player back down one of the Wolves, then finish with a layup and a phantom foul call is depressing. A intimidator may not be at the top of our priority list, but I think it would help.
About Jefferson-Gasol: I was more just trying to point out that Al Jeff got almost any look that he wanted against Pau. He missed a lot of shots that he normally makes and still shot 9-18. Most of his makes were very easy buckets after he either head-faked or just whirled around PG. Lakers should be concerned if Bynum doesn't get healthy. Duncan will welcome a matchup with Gasol.
Yeah, Jefferson didn't get dominated or anything (which I thought might happen after the first few minutes of the game) but I felt like Gasol's height was what caused a few of those misses. Still, the fact that he learned how to deal with Gasol as the game went on was very impressive to see. We need someone who can hit shots from outside and a good defensive center; I know that's repetitive but the team could actually have a good future if those needs can be filled.
And yeah, Duncan would dominate Gasol, but I think the Lakers would take S.A. after watching them against the Wolves. I know the Wolves are bad, but the Lakers looked really really good.
1. Foye
A. Foye is not the point guard of the future for Minnesota. Even the front office and Wittman (especially) have acknowledged this. Wittman has repeatedly stated that he wants Foye to play off the ball as well as run the point a bit. Clearly the wolves see Foye as a person who can play the point but that they want him to mainly play off the ball.
B. This means that the organization is still looking for a point guard (assuming they are not sold on Telfair). A top 2 pick in the draft could get the Wolves Derrick Rose, who is supposed to be a pure point.
C. Foye did make at least once very nice pass against LA. I think it was third quarter he got the ball on the perimeter and made a nice bounce pass to Gomes or Smith or someone who converted a layup. I thought that was a good sign.
D. Foye's shooting has to improve soon, he's not a 36% shooter, I think he proved that last year. It seems like a leg injury this serious is going to take a while to come back from.
E. McCants comparision. Although Rashad's injury was more serious I think he had more rehab time than Foye in terms of running and jumping on the knee. Because the microfracture is so serious I think Rashad was in better shape when he came back because they slowly got him in shape. I feel like Foye, because he did nothing with his leg (basketball wise) for over 3 months, practiced 2-3 weeks and then came back is at a disadvantage. As a comparison, consider Detroit rookie Rodney Stucky, who broke a finger earlier in the preseason. His finger is healed and he could do stuff with his legs but he struggled for way more than 8 games before having a string of good games recently. Granted, he's a rookie, but his game is similar to Foye's.
Well Britt, you've been immortalized by the Onion. Onionized?
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/timberwolves_beat_writer
I think the term is browned. Or chopped. Or ringed.
Wow! I'm sincerely flattered. And I'm appropriating all those puns for future columns.
Britt,
I love your writing. I may be misunderstanding your tone on Brewer against Kobe. But it's not like he was guarding a schmo. Kobe is the best player in the league, period. Kobe abuses everyone. Brewer is still a rookie on a crappy team.
Granted. But the ease with which Kobe operated, he was physically dominant both in terms of bulk and quickness, was disconcerting for folks who imagine Brewer to be a shutdown defender whose length lets him play both the 2 and the 3.
Britt, honestly, what did you expect Brewer to do against Kobe? If you take away the ticky-tack calls Kobe receives I bet Brewer could have at least slowed him down on the perimeter, but Kobe's one of the best post-up wings in the league and at this point in his career is an incredible physical specimen. Combine that with not being able to breathe on him without picking up a foul and it's not exactly an easy cover.
So far Corey's already exceeded my expectations of what he would be able to accomplish given his inexperience and toothpick frame. I already see him as a very good perimeter defender with his quickness and length, he just suffers massively in the expected area of strength. If he wants to take it to the next level and become a true defensive force, he's obviously going to have to pack on some muscle to avoid being exploited on post-ups, but that should be feasible. Many players don't physically mature until well into their 20's. Hell, even Kobe put on 15-20 pounds of muscle during the offseason just a couple years ago. The bigger worry for me is whether Corey can become a passable offensive player (though I think he'll be fine here too).
Congrats on the Onionization, btw :)
I guess I will tend to be the second comment since I live in GMT +(whatever japan is).
I have a question for Brit. When you said Sean Williams was the best rookie you've seen, did you mean ever? He is the best rookie you've ever seen? Or did you mean this year? The best rookie of them all this year? Or did you mean that you've only seen like 3 rookies and he is the best of that small sample? Just wondering.
Regarding our drafts, I have a bad feeling about the chances of getting a center. #2 pick will probably not be a center. We will have to go with best player available and that won't be a center there. #30 and 31 will probably be a couple of more tweeners for our tweener team. Why do they call them the Twolves? It stands for TweenerWolves.
So regarding our team's shooting, no one is improving. Didn't we hear a lot of talk about Hoiberg working with people? Maybe he is not the teaching type, which makes me concerned about his GM skills, though they may be unrelated.
Anyway, how do you make your team shoot better? Is this just a thing where you've either got it or you don't? Or do we have to go out and recruit a shooting specialist assistant coach next year?
The best rookie I ever saw, although at 6 years old I didn't realize it at the time, was Bill Russell. The best pure performance I've ever seen from a rookie in the flesh was the time Amare Stoudamire came in here pre-microfracture surgery and just destroyed Erv Johnson, KG, and everyone else the Wolves threw up against him.
So, to answer your question, Sean Williams is the best I've seen this year. But because smart basketball folks around the league aren't likewise raving, I suspect the twice I've seen him vs. the Wolves and the couple partial games I've caught him otherwise is an inaccurate sample. I think it does point to a fairly weak rookie class, at least in terms of immediate development. At this time--and I acknowledge that the situation could change dramatically in the next 2-3 years--Kevin Durant is overrated. And yet another hat tip to Colangelo--I'd never even heard of Jamario Moon and he's in the mix for ROY.
What about Horford? Haven't even heard him mentioned yet. Great rebounder and defender, and could be scoring a lot more on a different team. Slightly less athletic than Williams, but certainly more polished and complete...I see him as having not only a better rookie year, but a better career.
As the "Randy Foye at 2" talk continues...can Randy effectively guard NBA 2s? Is he even an average shooter relative to other NBA 2s? I am afraid the answer to both questions is -No.
I'll second that pre-microfracture Amare comment. It was horrifying. It was Shawn Kemp x 100. He was point guard quick, Shaq strong, and there was absolutely no answer to him. He was playing a completely different game than anyone else in the league and it's a shame that the injuries have slowed him down.
If you get a chance to watch a Philly game, check out Thaddeus Young. The guy has a nose for scoring like no other rookie in the class and I think he'll be the surprise All Star out of the bunch in a few years. He has the potential to have a really complete offensive game.
I think you've forgotten how good primetime Kemp was - Amare was never a candidate for mvp.
Also, irregardless of anything, those were the worst all-star uniforms I've ever seen. Nobody thought that maybe on television in the heat of a game it might be a bit of a pain to distinguish silver from white?
Thanks for the heads up. I've got tickets to next Friday's game and couldn't think of one reason to get excited to see Philly, other than the occasional big dunk from Andre--now I've got something to look out for.
How nice to always be the first to post since I live in GMT +1. neheh...
Britt talking draft .. first time I've seen it :D. Let's grab hold of this opportunity:
I agree on the first need: a center who plays stalward D. As for the offensive skillset, I'm not really sure what would complement Jeffersons game best. Someone who can shoot from a bit further? A passing big man? Help me out here...
The guy who I think is the best defensive center at a draft spot we could get is Thabeet. Not only does he block shots, everybody knows he blocks shots. That makes guards think twice before waltzing into the lane.
Offcourse he needs some work on several area's but what rookie doesn't...
The PG/SF thing, I'm not so sure. It depends on what happens with Foye and Brewer.
If Foye will only play very limited minutes at PG we indeed need a true point guard. If we get pick 1 or 2 we should get that in the form of rose (even though we could stand for some more outside shooting). If we drop a little lower I think we should trade down for value and take augustin or lawson.
If Brewer fixes the things he's lacking to play SF right now, I don't think we need another SF. Brewer is long, agile, quick, energetic (both on offense and defensive) while Gomes is a stronger, slower kind of player. So in that situation, don't think we need another SF.
We would only need another SF if either Brewer plays most of his minutes at SG (hope this doesn't happen long term cuz we're gonna have Foye and Mccants there already) or Gomes to PF, which would mean we have to move the Rhino.
If you count Jefferson as a PF I don't see ANY center that will play for us on a long term basis. Chris Richard was just a bad pick. I only see him as a 3th option type player at the Center. Feel free to correct me if you feel I'm wrong.
So my suggestion for the 3 picks:
#2: PG Derrick Rose (or trade down for Law/Augustin)
#30 C Thabeet (if possible trade up, in complement with trading down on our #2 pick)
#31 C Hardin(u never know)/Riek/Jawai/Erden/Pekovic/Asik
Though most of the centers in that list wouldn't really complement the Rhino in our second unit. We might want to wait to fill that void next year. If we have to use this pick for the trading down/up we do it and get another center next year.
It's a lot of "if", I know.
On the Foye situation. What I liked about him, especially in the Summer league was that Foye knew well when to shoot and when to pass. I really think he possesses that quality. If that is enough to be the starting PG for an NBA team... I would say no. It's enough for playing 10 minutes at that position and it's nice to know we could use him in case of an injury but that's it. He might not have ideal size for SG but apart from that he's got all he needs to be a good SG. He can shoot, slash and pass. I'm really positive about his Ass/TO ratio going up if we switch him to SG.
Forgot: If we do move Gomes to PF and trade the Rhino:
If we trade him for a SF: I would take Pekovic because he might complement Gomes best.
If we trade him for a C: Will Daniels seems to fit Britt's description best. Though I'd hate to bring in another guy who makes "stupid" fouls. Runner up is Mbah a Moute. A lot more risky but he's worth a chance.
Fyi it's not because I'm European that I have so much International players in my list. It's just a coincidence so much International players are projected at those positions around those draft spots (by nbadraft.net and draftexpress.com).
Also, I've seen Rose, Lawson, Augustin and Thabeet play. The others are just from aformentioned draft sites.
I do not understand why we aren't talking more about Roy Hibbard for the 5 spot. I believe he will be another in a long line of great former G'town centers and will be very good with time. I'm not a big Mike Beasley fan... I think he should stay @ K-State another year. Hibbard does all the fundamental things right and doesn't look for plays to be run to him.
I agree with Britt that Rose is NOT the point guard of the future for the Wolves and trading up to get Augustine would be a great idea. I know that doesn't fill the three spot very well, but I think we should give the youngsters a little more time to figure it out... unless McHale can get LeBron (ha ha).
Have a great time on the slopes and we'll see you after the break.
Fellas, Fellas....we're the Tpups. The odds on us getting a top2 pick are slim to have you followed our lottery luck?? Beasley's the obvious prize I think, but I don't see us getting that high of a pick. But before we even discuss draft picks, we have to figure out a couple things with this team.
First and foremost I believe, is Telfair the point guard? I think this is an easy Yes. He's got the quickness, passing ability, defensive ability, and court vision that's Rare these days. Obviously his shooting leaves much to be desired, but Parker, Billups, and even Nash had to improve their shooting before they 'made' it. The readers here seem to understand that Telfair is the answer at point, but the FO and Wittman seem intent on turning Foye into what they already have in Telfair; meanwhile, it takes minutes and opportunities away from Telfair that he Needs.
Second, what to do with Foye? He's not a point guard, he's too short to guard the 2's he'd need to guard if he's a starter on a championship team - as opposed to the two players we should've drafted, Roy or Gay - Oh, we did draft Roy, my mistake...Basically, I'm of the opinion that Foye was a mistake, and the quicker we get rid of him - and not McCants, because McCants can consistently shoot the ball - the better we are. If we could trade Foye and Jaric for a pick, I'd cream in my genes.
Our backcourt is a mess, with undersized kids who need development and Jaric stealing their minutes because of "matchups". McCants needs to realize he's a Vinnie Johnson player, not a starter - and he will realize this one day; hopefully it'll be here. Also, I don't think Derrick Rose or Eric Gordon solve our problem in the backcourt, only exacerbate it.
I like the players we have in the frontcourt. Brewer needs to improve the offense, but despite his Kobe performance, he's shown that he can be the big-time defender we thought he could be. Big Al - what more can ya say? Defense is lacking, but he's got no help down there so Meh. And Smith and Gomes are the type of glue guys that every team needs, coming off the bench. Center is the glaring weakspot on the team - followed closely by perimeter shooting, but that's what coaches are for.
Which brings us back to Dwayne Casey. Why Dwayne Casey? Because I fervently believe firing him for Wittman was as close as possible to being as Stupid a move as the Joe Smith fiasco - and nothing should be in the vicinity of the Joe Smith fiasco. But firing Casey was. He woulda' been a much better teacher for these kids - especially McCants - than Wittman. And I think he would've had Big Al playing better defense, and not letting Jaric steal minutes from the players we need to be developing. This team has so much talent - despite their record - but there should be more improvement, more development, more time experimenting with lineups like Telfair, Foye, Brewer, Gomes, Jefferson or Telfair, McCants, Brewer, Jefferson, Richard. I refuse to blame the kids for the lack of improvement; it's on Wittman. All that being said, he does get them to play their asses off; but, you could easily give the players the credit for that.
Draft: Donte' Green & Beasley are the 1st round picks; And take a flyer on that 7'7'' kid from Ashville in the second round and some other 7footer, I don't care who. Wait till next year to try and add size to the backcourt.
This is spot on. It seem absurd that the Wolves would waste a first round pick on a PG like Augustin or Lawson, who are not taller or more talented than the young guy they already have. Rose may be the exception here because of his combination of height, vision and speed, but if Beasley or Rose are gone by the time the Wolves pick, they may as well draft for need and reach for that big shot blocker since nobody left is a surefire star.
A jumper is the easiest thing to improve. It takes focused work and repetition, but if Bassy locks himself in a gym this summer and does nothing but shoot with a shooting coach standing there to tweak his form, there is no reason he can't add the 3 to 5% that S-n-P says he needs to be a legit top-15 PG (on a team littered with sub-40% shooters, his assist numbers are stunning).
If you freeze Bassy's stats right now, we're looking at about 25 more shots made over the first half of the season, or between .5 and .6 shots per game. Very doable. He's been in the league for almost four years, but given his considerable improvement in so many other areas it's entirely possible that he hasn't spent his summers doing the "500 jumpers a day" thing yet.
I guess I don't see why people are down on Rose...I have been very impressed with him in the 3 games I've seen him play. College players typically don't have large assist numbers, and I've never been a fan of extrapolating college numbers to the pros anyways(i.e. I don't think Durant will ever average the rebounding #'s he had in college--I think he's looking more like a Rashard Lewis type than a franchise player--but he's only 19). I think Beasley, like Durant, has inflated college #'s, and that he'll end up being another 6'10 SF that thinks they're MJ and won't rebound. Glen Robinson was a can't miss #1 pick too...
If you look around the NBA, there are a LOT of good PG's now, and I think we will need one to become competitive. I know Telfair has been nice, and everyone concedes he needs to work on his shot, but I think the more troubling thing is that he cannot finish--against anyone. I have seen countless T-wolves 2-1's and 3-1's that end up with him short arming it or trying to make a circus shot...I don't think most of the PG's people are comparing him to had that sort of problem even at 22 years old.
We'll find ways to use Foye, Shaddy, and Brewer...even if it's a trade.