Copyright 2008 NBAE (Photo by David Sherman/NBAE via Getty Images)
Game #52, Home Game #27: Philadelphia 88, Minnesota 104
Season record: 11-41
1. Spread the Credit
It's been a habit of these three-pointers to isolate players for individual praise or criticism, rearranging members of the roster like pieces in a jigsaw puzzle that someday will yield a different and more pleasing picture than the one who entered the All Star break losing more than four games for every one it won. But tonight's convincing triumph over a Philadelphia 76ers team that had won five straight is most accurately seen as a blended team effort, the type of performance that most satisfies coaches and front office personnel.
The Wolves' outscored Philly in all four quarters, beating back a series of runs and challenges in the process. Seven of the nine players who participated--and all seven of those who logged over 20 minutes of playing time--scored in double figures. Only Antoine Walker, who played but 8:05, failed to record a positive in the plus/minus figures. Especially in the first half, the Wolves both moved the ball and moved without the ball, generating offense that was generous, dynamic, and visually pleasing. They were far better mentally and physically prepared than their opponent for their first game in nearly a week, roaring out to a 17-8 lead in the first 6:14 mostly by grabbing 12 of the game's first 14 rebounds and proving themselves to be the more alert and energetic team.
Within this team game, two early matchups deserve special mention. Perhaps no foe has frustrated Jefferson more than Samuel Dalembert the first time these teams played, with Big Al suffering five blocks, including a game-tying attempt in the final seconds. This time, Jefferson wasn't lunched once en route to 9-14 FG. And at the other end, Jefferson totally stymied his taller but more listless opponent. At the half, Dalembert had two points and a rebound in 13:13 versus Jefferson's 10 and 8 in 16:22. Jefferson's shot wasn't falling, but four offensive board produced a pair of putbacks that boosted his percentage (he was 5-9 FG in the first half). He added three more offensive rebounds in the second half and grabbed 14 overall versus 9 for Dalembert. Best of all, weaknesses in his game are slowly but fairly surely being caulked. His "show" on the pick and roll actually had some resonance for the dribbler, and he wasn't as casual about getting back either.
But the real eye-opener was a trio of interior passes down toward the hoop from a spot in the middle of the post. Because Jefferson has expanded his range enough to hit that 12-15 footer, the double-team--or at least an opponent's attention--will be drawn. Tonight he shoveled one pass that Craig Smith finished, went over the top to find Rashad McCants in traffic beneath the hoop, and had another nifty feed come to naught due to a missed layup. His total of 3 assists could have been double that had his teammates converted, or if he needed to log more than just 2:22 in the 4th quarter.
The other honorable mention goes to Corey Brewer's defense on Philly's leading scorer, Andre Iguodala. The 6-6 swingman was clearly bothered by Brewer's length and tenacity, missing all four of his shots before Brewer picked up his second foul with 3:01 to play in the first and headed for the bench. On the other side of the ball, Brewer remains a disaster--his lone basket in 8 attempts came on a transition layup off a steal. Yes, he takes "good shots," and I suppose one should applaud his confidence in continuing to try and keep opposing defenses honest. But they simply don't fall--long in the first half, woefully short on his first attempt of the 3rd period--and defenses cheat dishonestly away from him anyway, and will until his finds the range.
But here's why Brewer deserves kudos instead of brickbats for this game: While scoring just that lone bucket on five attempts in the first period, the rook also grabbed six rebounds, dished for two dimes, and sank a pair of free throws. Meanwhile, he held Iguodala to a pair of free throw attempts (one made), no baskets, two rebounds and an assist in that first period. When your rookie is getting the better of your opponent's top point producer, the chances of winning skyrocket. Brewer wasn't flashy about it--his blanket on Iguodala was most apparent after he sat and Iguodala suddenly was shooting jumpers without a hand in his face (McCants and Ryan Gomes were his other defenders). He *was* flashy coming out of nowhere to foul fellow rook Thaddeus Young in mid-slam well above the hoop in the third quarter, however. Bottom line, if Brewer is one of the top two (or perhaps even three) guys in your pecking order, your team isn't likely to go far in the playoffs. On the other hand, most playoff-caliber teams have a Brewer-like presence in their lineup: An energy guy with glue-like attributes. And he's going to get better.
2. Bassy Hangs In
Randy Foye finally received his first start of the season tonight, but in a bit of an upset, it was at the shooting guard slot. This move is a victory for common sense over face-saving draft politics. If Foye isn't a point guard, then the Wolves likely erred in swapping him for Brandon Roy (certainly the injury history argument hasn't panned out thus far for Foye's defenders). Well, Foye *isn't* a point guard--they are sent from God, as Stephon Marbury once said, and isn't that ironic in retrospect--but force-feeding him at that spot to make sure was the kind of butt-covering logic I anticipated. Instead, Wittman and company are properly impressed with Bassy's gaudy assist to turnover ratio; after preaching the value of reducing turnovers with numbing frequency, Wittman would have demonstrated blatant hypocrisy by lifting him for a unbalanced combo guy whose miscues outnumber his dimes.
Fifty-two games into this season, Telfair is the Wolves player who has most aggressively seized this campaign by the throat, not so much surpassing the low expectations his previous play had engendered as lapping them, stoking his energy and intelligence in the process. In the past 30 games or so, Telfair has finally learned how to do more than simply turn the key in the offense and try to steer the wheel. He's discovered how to regulate pace with the throttle and the brake, how to draw and kick, how to make opponents cover him because of his dribble penetration or initial probes in the modified fast break where the Wolves may or may not have the numbers. He's still small, of course, and despite tonight's 3-4 FG, his shooting continues to be a relatively wretched adventure. But when he's paired with Jaric or Foye or McCants in the backcourt, there's no longer much doubt that he's the floor general.
By the numbers, Foye had perhaps his best game thus far: 13 points, five assists and one lone turnover. But he did jack up 15 shots (making six), including a half-dosen treys (converting one), and he's been a sub-mediocre defender all year. Tonight, Andre Miller posted him up a couple of times for easy baskets on the way to a 15-point half that kept Philly in the game (Miller didn't score in the second half, however.) Of even greater concern, Philly was the second straight opponent to deploy a full-court press when Foye was the primary point guard, and Wittman quickly had Telfair up and ready to go back in after the court-length disruption cut into the Wolves lead.
Foye's confidence, like Brewer's, remainsa little higher than reality might warrant. Asked about his defense tonight, he boasted about clamping down on Willie Green (who *was* held to 6 points on 3-10 FG) instead of Miller's early post-ups or some garbage time matador maneuvers. It is reminiscent of his claim about being best suited for the point. And maybe after he regains full range of that knee and fills his head with another thousand or so minutes at the point, he'll become more of a savior than a sabatoeur at the position. But Wittman revealed after tonight's game that he'll continue to experiment with the Telfair-Foye backcourt allignment for a while longer to see how well they stir up sparks.
3. Cuban's Kidd
About three weeks ago when I was catching a Mavs game on League Pass, a television poll showed Dallas fans believing that Devin Harris was the team MVP at that time. Now not only Harris but the Mavs' best legit big man in Dasanga Diop are heading to New Jersey to finally trigger the trade for Jason Kidd. It's a bad deal for Dallas on a number of levels: The fans clearly appreciated Harris, who destroyed the Wolves with dribble penetration the first two times the teams met in Dallas earlier this year. Kidd has slipped defensively, and will have difficulty with the Nash-Williams-Paul-Parker quartet, who figure to be among his opposing matchups in the playoffs. Losing Diop means Erick Dampier will be the default man in the pivot when the Mavs need to match up with lengthy ballclubs. Then there is the small matter of two first round draft picks. And three million bucks.
I'll be shocked if both Dallas and Phoenix make it out of the first round of this year's playoffs.
So, I'm wondering. Why doesn't Wittman more often employ a lineup of Jaric, Mccants/Foye, Brewer, Gomes and Al? Al and Mccants can cover Jaric's and Brewers spotty shooting while Brewer and Jaric play defense on people McCants can't cover. Most teams will have one guy who doesn't pose much of an offensive threat, so why not put Mccants on that player while leaving Jaric to do the heavy lifting? It might make more sense to have Bassy, McCants/Foye, Jaric, Gomes and Al if you want to play small ball, but since Jaric loves the point so much he plays small forward with a bitterness in his heart and the oft injured Ratliff is the team's only true center, the Jaric, Mccants/Foye, Brewer/Snyder, Gomes/Smith and Al line up makes for the happiest compromise. Alas, this wouldn't work as well for fast breaks as Jaric is more of a half court point guard, but if he doesn't want to be an awesome fast break small forward, so be it.
I suppose this might be an issue when the non threat is something other than a two or one, but certainly it could work very well in some situations. When giving Big Al, the teams only reliable offense, a breather, a line up featuring a ball hog like Foye or McCants seems to be a great idea. A better idea involves pairing either one with a more reliable defensive player.
Even more so in this league where such slight contact will draw a whistle. Imagine if Foye or McCants get to the point where they've earned some respect in the league and these whistles go their way more often(ok, maybe not likely in McCants case, the refs will probably always hate him), then whenever the offense stagnates the wolves just need a dribble drive to get some free throws.
I guess it might send the wrong message to let scorers off easy while Jaric plays defense and gets no offensive glory, but this is the nba and jaric misses too many jumpers.
Maybe if you went around playing Jaric at point, Foye and McCants at the two and three, Smith/Gomes at the four, and Al or Theo at the five, Foye and McCants egos will collide and make for an interesting conflict that results in one of them learning to pass. That seems to be what Mchale was thinking when he drafted the pair in successive years.
I guess Jaric, McCants, Roy, Al, and Theo looks pretty sweet right now. Now I'm playing fantasy coach and fantasy Gm. What fun!! In that case, Bassy, McCants/Foye, Jaric/Brewer, Gomes/(Beasely), and Al would be an amazing fast break line up if that draft turns out well assuming Beasely isn't a bust. Especially if Foye learns to pass and his "wingspan" allows him to guard a two like it's supposed to.
Bassy can't shoot, but he can distribute the ball pretty well. If only he had a three point shot and a softer touch.
McCants and Foye need to learn to play offense without the ball in their hands and could work on their D. At the same time, they have some talent for getting to the basket and scoring that's so important in a two. Also, McCants can shoot the three better than anyone else on the team, Al could use some of that to spread the defense.
Jaric and Brewer, well poor Jaric really shouldn't be lumped with Brewer. Jaric is an underappreciated talent really. Poorly used more than anything. Excellent defender, near decent spot up shooter, capable ball handler who's height makes dribbling like a traditional guard a bit akward for him. I really really really would like to see him at the three. It would give the wolves the second point guard on the floor they lost with KG and put a crucial perimeter defender on the floor. At the same time, when he runs the point all on his own, the team seems so lethargic.
Brewer could learn a lot from Jaric. He'll never be an equal ball handler, but oh well. The rebounding and defense he adds would be great in a small ball situation though.
Gomes makes for an undersized four, but if the team pushes the tempo the face up game he's developing would expose slower footed players with more size and his jumper might come in handy. I'd use him like a poor man's marion. I think Beasely basically needs to be in an up tempo offense to succeed next year.
Al isn't a five, but not many players are. He seems to survive at the spot anyway. His post up game doesn't fit as well with a fast break style, except you might hope he could establish the low positions he loves so much more consistently with a bigger man stuggling to catch up. That's hoping for a bit much cause Al's kinda slow up the court.
With all the talk about Foye’s last second decision making, I’m surprised no one has picked up on my comment about the Wolves last defensive stand against the Spurs allowing Ginobili the chance to get the go-ahead shot and eventual game winner. Maybe someone else can verify it for me (limited access to internet from my current employer). Ginobili was unstoppable last night. His shooting was spectacular. Perhaps it was coincidence, but his scoring came mostly when Brewer was on the bench were my observations while at the game. Minnesota had the opportunity to put Brewer on Ginobili with Jaric playing off the ball (on Finley I think), Ratliff on Duncan, Jefferson on the 4 (Can’t remember) and Telfair playing Stoudamire (I think, again). But, instead they had Foye, McCants, Telfair, Jaric and Jefferson defending (pretty-sure). My memory is hazy, but the point is Brewer should have been the on-ball defender on Ginobili due to his length, hustle and quickness. Isn’t this obvious? I mean, more obvious than even the question of who should have taken the last shot for the Wolves? I know the Wolves had a few defensive stands before this where Jefferson showed hard on the roll with Ginobili and it led to a spur turnover, but Ginobili was still getting space for his shot when he wanted to take it and everyone knew that on the last Spurs possession he was going to take it and Foye ends up guarding him with Telfair sliding over to help and get a hand up. Brewer may have prevented that shot from being taken – probably would have blocked it (if he were Telfair). Wasn’t that the game and not the missed shot by Telfair-preceded by the botched pass from Foye-at the end or did I miss something? At least as important anyway? I mean, the Spurs play great D and they can shut it down. They are going to deny Jefferson and pressure the ball and likely make the Wolves take a bad shot. Likewise, on the offensive side-last night especially-Manu is going to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game and likely take a shot. Damn, Brewer was the only chance to stop Manu at the end, or am I completely wrong?
Bye-bye Gerald Green!
Looking forward to seeing if Kirk Snyder can contribute anything. If nothing else, I can root for a guy who shares my surname. :-)
Am I the only one concerned that they've added to their swingman glut? Unless someone (Jaric) gets bumped, they've now got six guys who play primarily at the 2 and the 3, which seems like a time crunch for a team trying to audition it's younger players.
Dang it, I was hoping to be the first commenter on the boffo trade.
Kirk Snyder == championship!
Actually I am fine with the deal. Anything to unload Gerald Green rather than have him whine about not playing the rest of the year and then losing him for nothing after the season.
How about those Cavs? Was Wally the missing piece they needed?
I guess primary they were focused on getting someone to match against the western big men in the finals... the suns with shaq against lebron would be quite unfair...
though wally is a good shooter, i dont think he will help that much...remember that they said the same about d.jones?!
Well, last night's game has moved me to post. It was definitely the "B" League for me.
It's my impression that if you took the 76ers "goods" and added them to the Wolves' "goods", you might have a decent team of also-ran starters. Imagine, if you will, Andre Miller, Iguodala, and Dalembert teamed with Jefferson and...oh, wait, you'd need a "2" (or a "3" if you put Iguodala at the "2"). In my opinion, the Wolves have neither a "2" nor a "3" when it comes to genuine NBA starter quality.
Yes, this means that I have lost all hope for McCants (actually, I never had any - just ask Krush), Foye, and of course, Marko to be genuine NBA starters. In fact, I don't see Foye and McCants as backups that you can count on in the clutch when the other team brings their "A" game. Now, I do believe Marko is giving it everything he has, but it just isn't ever going to be enough either. Fortunately for Marko, he's got the money AND the girl.
And for backups on this mythical hybrid team?
You gotta like the obvious improvements in Telfair's game, right now I think he's developing into a decent NBA backup-level point guard, and in another year might become real quality (if he can develop a dangerous outside shot) that may deserve starting for a 2nd tier team. Keeper.
And who doesn't like Corey Brewer's hustle? Can he develop into an offensive threat? Let's hope so, because I don't think his defense will ever rise to Trenton Hassell's all-around effectiveness. But I'd hang on to him. Say, does he remind anyone of A.C. Green (or is it just the hair)?
From the Sixers, you might consider keeping rookie Thaddeus Young. And I believe you'd keep Doleac and Ratliff from the Wolves. Then find me a good backup "4" and a starting "2" guard (hey, I hear Ron Artest is looking to move...hah!) and I think you could make the playoffs in the East -- if of course, you had a coach.
Ah well, I'm kinda hoping for the Lakers to meet the Celtics in the Finals. And I think the Lakers would win that matchup (to my chagrin - I'm an old Celtics fan from the fading days of Havlicek and Cowens and a "new" one now that they have KG and some legit talent to go with).
The Foye/Telfair backcourt played well, and could continue to play well later on...but so what? That's Hinrich/Gordon, but worse shooters. We need to realize something: It's Telfair, or it's Foye, but we aren't having both. I'd prefer Telfair, and I pray Billy King watched Foye last night and is willing to trade Jason Smith and 2 secondround picks for him. I'd take that, seriously, I would. And I don't even like Jason Smith. I hate Foye that much; everytime I look at him, I see Rudy Gay...and then I see Brandon Roy. It's terrible for my psyche.
The McCants/Ginobili comparison is half-right; McCants could be the leader of the second team, the 6th man, but he'll never - Ever - even if he works for a million years, be the defensive player Ginobili is. McCants is Vinnie Johnson, and that's not bad. He just needs to realize this.
We need a big man. Al played good against Dalembert, but watching it made me think - as I'm sure it made others think - "Huh, Al is shorter than him, by a couple of inches." It's not a very hard realization to realize, but it's still vital: AL IS NOT A CENTER. And he doesn't have the athleticism of Amare to cover the fact he's 6'10'' guarding 7footers. I don't want to hear anymore about Roy Hibbert, either. He's Olowokandi-lite. Uncoordinated, and I didn't spell that right. But the Big Man is the team's most pressing need.
Brit, I'm not sure if you've answered this yet, but who would you like the Wolves to draft? Who would be your top backcourt player, and who would be your top frontcourt player?
I love Corey Brewer and everything he brings to a team. I pray for the day he can make 2of10 jumpers, and would cream in my genes if he made 3of10. Which reminds me...
What the #$#& does Hoiberg do? Does he do anything? Can he spare some time in his long day of Nothing to walk down to the practice court and help Bassy and Brewer with the jumpshot?
At this point, what I really want to see is some degree of consistency, evan at the expense of the occasional standout performance. The streaky play needs to level out. Other than Jefferson, everyone needs to start showing it. And for those who kind of are, they need to step it up. Like Telfair. And Brewer - his "glue guy" game is looking good, we'll know more about the jump shot next season.
As for McCants, the previous comment about Manu Ginobli is quite appropriate. A player with his offensive skills and athleticism - why wouldn't he relish that that role? If he can't accept it, which would still give him his minutes and points, then let him go and see if he can crack someone else's starting lineup.
Does anyone know anything about our overseas scouting? Who's in the pipeline (other than Shane Heal, Jr. and Stoyko Vrancovic II)? Why can't we latch onto some of this talent? (Even if it means waiting out some contract for a couple of years.)
Brit-
Its been a while since I've commented but I haven't missed a post this season.
I'm wondering if you might do a possible trade post. I've been playing with espn's trade machine a lot lately. (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/trades/trademachine)
I've actually been loving watching the team this year. I knew going into the season that we had next to nothing for this year and possibly next.
What elements of this team are off limits? To me its Big Al and only Big Al. I think that Foye and McCants probably carry more trade worth then they do to the team. Look at the next draft or two we are always going to go with "the best" available talent. I'm not seeing a polished big man this year or next and if we are looking at top five picks this and next year I'm looking at back-court/small forwards.
What do you think the chances are for us getting involved in a move with Cleveland and the 76ers? I think that might have been some of the impetuous for starting Foye last night to let the 76ers see what they'd have in him. I'd love to see a move with us taking some Cleveland dead weight, sending Foye to Philly, Miller to Cleveland and a few firsts our way. I'm fine with McCants in that equation instead.
I think we've got to make a move or two to set-up our draft and our summer. I see Bassy as being serviceable at worst. Would love seeing Beasley added. A back-court of Bassy/Brewer with Al, Beasley and either a veteran center or a later first round pick.
Just speculating cause its fun.
Thanks for the great post and all of the comments from everyone.
Hey Britt,
Thought you and your readers would like to tear this one up. After last night's win, I spoke with Foye...he compares himself to Steve Nash.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=7497
That's interesting. I think there might be more differences between Nash and Foye than he lists. A big one that sticks out is that Nash is the league's best passer, while Foye is a mediocre passer, even when healthy. Let's just hope Foye's right about not being 100%. Right now, he's worse at the 1 than Telfair and worse at the 2 than McCants. He can blur the line between those positions all he wants, but most teams recognize them and set their lineup accordingly.
I actually like Foye's game, or at least what he showed last year, but running screen & rolls with Big Al will be difficult if he doesn't even look to make the pass. The question for optimists becomes: who would you rather have at the point, Telfair with an improved jumper or Foye with improved court vision? The odds of one, and not both or neither, happening are probably best, so maybe one will just win the job on the merits.
Britt,
I am wondering what you think the future of Foye and McCants as Timberwolves is. With Bassy stepping up at the point, Jarics bloated contract, Foye's poor play to this point, and McCants's 'tude and lack of defense is it possible or probable that we won't see one or both of Foye and McCants on the squad next year?
b--
The problem with hypotheticals is you are not only trying to read the minds and discern the logic of front office folks who don't want their motivations advertised, but you also have to know which trading partner or player agent is on the other end of the negotiation and what their priorities and logic model entails. That's why I so rarely engage in this sort of speculation--it literally is a waste of time.
What I can tell you is how my own thinking runs from day to day. I think management prefers Foye to McCants, that Jaric has a contract that is tough to move, that Bassy hasn't yet ascended to "lock" status on his future with the ballclub, and that if the Wolves follow the "best player available" in the draft, it may well be another backcourt player. Looking at all those factors, I think McCants is the one most logically not to be around next year. FWIW, I agree with Andy G that his ability to create on the perimeter is unmatched by anyone on the roster, and that if Telfair and Brewer are going to be a regular part of your 8-9 man rotation going into the future, then you want someone with Shaddy's skill set sticking around--especially if a defensive-oriented big man is among the priorities, as I believe it should be.
Thanks for the speculation Britt.
I've been watching a lot of college basketball this year with an eye on all the talented freshmen that the Wolves are going to have a shot at in the draft. It seems to me that they only way they keep all the guards they are playing now (Bassy, Foye, Jaric, McCants) is if they get Michael Beasely from Kansas State, a forward who's inside-out game would be a dream to match with Jefferson's post game.
After Beasley, though, it seems the most likely draftees are guards: Rose from Memphis, Gordon from Indiana, Mayo from USC. There is no way that if the Wolves take any of these guys that they can keep the guards they have now. Rose is a pure point guard, Gordon is a scorer who's size probably forces him to the point, and Mayo is a pure shooting guard.
This situation keeps me very interested in the draft and offseason moves. I have enjoyed seeing Bassy flourish this season and although he may have come the closest to earning a spot on the team next year, he may be the odd man out. I think Foye will be on the team next year but they still won't know what they have with him at the beginning of next year. McCants drives me crazy: he has great offensive skills and even a good head on the offensive end but rarely puts the team on his shoulders and his mediocre-at-best D and emotional immaturity keep me from caring if he is on the squad or not.
There was one sequence last night that showed the clear difference in point guard ability between Telfair and Foye. On the same possession, which must have included an offensive rebound, both players ended up running a screen and roll with Al Jeff. The play was defended similarly, with the "split" pass being available in both situations. Telfair not only saw this, but he executed it, ala Steve Nash, perfectly bounced between the feet of both defenders. It was also there for Foye, but he didn't bother to look, and I'm not sure he can make that pass if he does see it. I'm still skeptical about Telfair as a long-term solution at point, at least until I read about how Hoiberg spends an hour after every practice with him, fixing his J, but he's certainly a better fit than all other current Wolves.
McCants looked good last night. His defense was ok, in spite of a couple stupid fouls. Offensively, he still has that handful of possessions where he gets himself stuck and has to risk turnovers with passes out of trouble, but those will decrease over time. But his scoring ability is so superior to every other Wolves' guard that I really hope he stays and can get along with Witt or whatever coaches we have. I don't know the exact +/- for his game last night, but he sat most of the 3rd, when our offense was completely stagnant. When he came in late, it exploded and we quickly put the game out of reach.
I too am amazed that NJ was able to get so much for JKidd. An aging player with an enormous contract who is demanding a trade...and they turn that into Devin Harris and some nice pieces. Wow.
The Lakers not only made a great trade for Gasol, they forced their WC rivals into some very stupid, shortsighted moves that will put them back in the lottery in the next 2-3 years.
McCants was a +11, Marko was +11, Telfair was a team leading +15. Why did Foye (+6) get the start at two? He hasn't played that well thus far, is not yet in game shape, and is pretty clearly a less talented shooting guard option than McCants. Is this part of Wittman's "audition" process, or is the team just trying to save face on the Foye pick?
If it is the latter, they are not fooling anyone. In fact, they are making things worse by forcing Foye back into a rotation that was just starting to show some very nice improvements.
I think it is part of the audition process, but it also uses Rashad in a role he might fluorish in- as the 6th man. He can be the man on the second unit, and it allows him to be at his most creative on offense. The Spurs use Ginobli in a similar vein and it has been incredibly effective. You have a guy on the floor at all times that can effectively create his own shot. Now, is a 6th man role a role that Rashad would effectively embrace?
Hey, don't forget that they won last night, or that their recent improvments coincided with Foye's return. It kind of reminds me of the Vikings situation with Tavaris at QB; we can complain that he sucks but the bottom line is that they're winning more with him in the lineup than they did with him on the bench.
You sure about that? Because when I actually look at the hard data, the Wolves had won 3 of 4 (should've been 4 of 4) prior to Foye's return.
Upon Foye's return, we proceeded to split with a very bad Bulls team, beat the hapless Clippers, then lose five in a row (including some nasty ass kickings) before last night.
I am not saying that Foye sucks. I am saying that if we are truly trying to win games, he should have to earn his minutes. Forcing Foye into the lineup has (thus far) slowed the positive momentum we had been building.
Good point about the Lakers trade-effect. Only Utah made a reasonable trade that helps in both the short and long-term. With Nash being 34, though, I'm not sure Phoenix was "very stupid" to pull the trigger on that deal. Their window is closing and they probably have this year and maybe next to get that title they've been chasing. Kerr just thinks Shaq's huge playoff experience might be the difference. Dallas is the team that really mortgaged away a bright future. Dirk and Howard are still pretty young, and Harris + Diop + First Round Pick A + First Round Pick B might look pretty good in two years when Kidd retires.
Time will tell on the Phoenix trade, but from my viewpoint, they got an over-the-hill, expensive player that resembles the player that used to be Shaq. Couldn't they have used a fairly valuable trading ship like Marion a little better? Wouldn't you rather have a Kurt Thomas/Chris Wilcox combo or something like that? The need was interior D, and it appears that it could have been filled better and more cheaply.
Valid points...I'd guess Kerr thinks Shaq has more in reserve than the fans realize--he's gotta be hoping that Shaq pulls a Sam Cassell-type move, where he's struggling to stay motivated, then gets traded to a contender and brings his game back to a high level. Sam showed us this move with the Clips, when he went from struggling to stay on the court with MN to damn-near leading the Clippers--(of all franchises)--to the West Finals. Tonight's Suns-Lakers game should be interesting. My opinion is that Shaq better immediately look improved in his new uni, because he's not going to play his way back into any kind of shape. He's too old and big for that. It's gotta be a motivation-thing that was holding him back for Phoenix to benefit from the deal.
Britt -
Thanks for your comments on Suns and Mavs. Devon Harris will be sorely missed in Dallas and, you're right about J-Kidd slippage.
It appears that Witt has shortened his bench as we enter the final phase of the audition.
Britt,
First time posting. Just wanted to first say I've enjoyed your blog this year. I think many people are missing the boat on these trades. Both Phoenix and Dallas have been knockin on the door of an NBA championship for a few years. Neither has been able to get over the hump. I applaud the risks they have taken with Shaq and Kidd to win an NBA championship. Would you rather make the playoffs for 8 years like Minnesota did but never win a championship? Personally I'll take a championship and then rebuild.
JPK--
Thanks for your comments. I understand Phoenix going after Shaq, and have written about it before, when the deal was made. I think their chances of sharp decline are greater than their increased chance of bagging a championship, but you're right, Steve Kerr is to be commended for a gutsy decision for which he will inevitably be held accountable.
With Dallas it is a different story. I flat out think they are a better team right now with Diop and Harris on the roster instead of Kidd, and we're not even talking about the draft picks and the dough.
As to your greater point, as a die-hard hoops fan who will watch regardless of performance, I want long-term consistency over one brass ring. Now I admit the Wolves string of six or so first round playoff losses puts that to the test--let's just say it would have really helped if they'd gone at least another round in one or two of those years. But if you ask me, whether I'd rather have watched Phoenix or Miami over the past six years--the Heat lead in rings, one to zero--I'd definitely go with the Suns.
Yeah, it's a balance. But I'll take the Atlanta Braves, the Utah Jazz of Stockton and Malone, the Vikings and Bills Super Bowl loser dynasties, over one magical season and then a half-decade of retrenchment and fan hiberation.
I think both the Suns and Mavericks made bad trade moves. Everything Ianalysis I've read is that the trades were a panic reaction to the Lakers' trade which netted them Gasol for next to nothing. Both teams are giving up too much for two great players who are clearly on the downside of their careers. Overall I think Dallas fared the worst.
Now Dallas has been rumored to have been wanting Kidd ever since their first round debacle last year (according to ESPN) but I think they went way overboard and out of their way in order to get Kidd; simply put they gave up way too much: youth, defense, a good interior defender, picks, cash all for one player essentially. I think this was a big mistake and I don't see Dallas doing much in the loaded West this year.
The Suns situation is a bit more interesting because they were on the verge of the championship last year and had to do something to get over the hump. As good (and underrated) as Marion is and as good a fit as he was in the Suns running system, it's also said he was a cancer in the locker room. So if Shaq can stay healthy, I think the Suns will are a better team and have a better chance than Dalls in the brutal West.
I was flipping between the wolves game and the Barack Obama speech and got confused. I suddenly was filled with the Audacity of Hope about the Timberwolves. We can win with Foye and McCants. Yes We Can. We can get the top draft pick in the draft. Yes We Can. We can go to the Mountaintop of the NBA Finals in Three Years. YES WE CAN! But, Obama needs to work on his jump shot even though he is improving his defense.
By the way, Obama is suppose to be a pretty good BB player. Since everyone here is a basketball fan, let me tell you a nice BB story about Michelle and Obama. When Michelle and Obama first started dating, Michelle thought that she liked him but wasn't sure. So she had her brother take him to a pick-up basketball game to find out if played the game the was it was supposed to be played or if he was a complainer or a whiner. He obviously past the test.
Anyway, back to the Timberwolves. After watching the game last night, it seems like we need two more things. A big aggressive defensive center and Brewer to be able to hit an open jump shot. I do have a question. Is Craig Smith a long term solution or do we really need a back-up power forward who is 6'10" rather than 6'5"?
I've felt the same way watching the Wolves before a few times and again tonight. Telfair actually looks quite good (I expected him to bomb). I know that Foye has looked bad at times, but he looked great at times last year and last night hit a few shots (the turnaround at the 24-second mark and the "and-1" off of a drive) that made me believe he's thinking too much and will improve once he just starts playing. McCants can hit difficult shots, and I think a 2nd team featuring him, Jaric and Smith could be very good. If we can add a Center that blocks shots and moves the ball we may end up winning.
Imagine if we can somehow get Rose and Hibbert in the next draft. Sign a Ervin Johnson-style big, let him start. Our starters could be Telfair/Rose, Foye, Brewer/Gomes, Big Al and veteran C, 2nd team Telfair/Rose, Jaric/Brewer, McCants, Smith and Hibbert. Now, is getting Hibbert and Rose a possibility, and if we could do it, am I right in thinking we'd be good or sadly misguided (as I have been many times before)?
I keep hearing from folks who say the first need of this club is perimeter shooting. Last night's game proves otherwise. Playing defense and sharing/moving the ball creates a lot of offense. Simply adding jump shooters who look for their own shot compounds this team's bad habits, and seems "Flipish" to me. Let's find folks who can defend and move the ball first, then look for shooters who can extend the opposition's defense, if needed.
The ability of Rod Thorn to get what he got out of Dallas really makes Memphis look bad. Those are some quality players he got in return for Kidd. I realize the Grizz owner is in fairly bad financial shape, but now Mike Miller is rumored to be available. I would forgo my entire first paragraph's theme and agree to be shunned as a heretic if we could throw in a couple of players-set-to-leave-after-the-season to get Miller cheap. I would gladly wear sackcloth and ashes (at least until the chafing began) to hear Jim Pete correctly prioritize the Wolves needs.
More about the Shaq and Kidd trades. See my last post above. Both Phoenix and Dallas will have massive expiring contracts with these two in the 2-3 years. So even if they have to rebuild, they will definitely have valuable expiring contracts to stockpile young talent. As I said earlier, I applaud both Phoenix and Dallas for having the balls to make these trades.
Eh. I'm not going to comment on the Phoenix trade because Shaq might actually give them what they need, but I just can't see Kidd doing it for Dallas. Unless Johnson completely reworks their offense, it just doesn't seem like a good fit.
To say that they might be able to turn him into something of value down the line is pointless and I'm sure didn't enter into the decision on Dallas' side. They already had proven (young, cheap btw) players in Diop and Harris. You don't give up on proven talent because of what you MIGHT be able to do in the future. They made the deal for the sole reason of trying to compete right now, which was a bad idea, IMO. Like Britt said, I'd rather have consistency than 1 year of glory only to flame out (Miami anyone?). I guess they had to make a push, but that seems like too steep a price to pay for the window it gives them. To each his own, I guess. Cuban must have really wanted to win now, though the odds are better that that he screwed himself in the long run.
Barring some crazy, newly discovered ability to actually score efficiently and fit into an iso-heavy half-court offense I just can't see Kidd being enough. It just doesn't make much sense to me.
Desperation is a stinky cologne, as they say.
Xand
I agree that if Dallas really didn't improve then why make the trade. But, Kidd's expiring contract will be extremely valuable in a couple years. How many teams would love to take Theo Ratliff's contract off the Wolves hands right now?
Leads me to another question for everyone. Should the Wolves consider using Theo's contract to either bring in a proven young center and/or savvy point guard... i.e. Andre Miller... ?
Sure, it MIGHT be valuable in a couple years. If Kidd brings them a championship and they can ship him off for valuable assets then it's a win-win situation, right? However, the former happening is seriously questionable and the latter situation coming to fruition is a gigantic IF because it depends on the right team having the right assets available for trade at the right time, whereas Diop and Harris were already very valuable players.. I'm not sure Dallas realized just how valuable they were relative to Kidd and what he brings at this stage of his career. Just seems that, even if he plays like he did 3-5 years ago he still isn't what that team needed to get over the hump as he's best on a running team and is a better defender against bigger guards than he is against quick guys, just like Britt said. We'll see. If nothing else the playoffs are going to be a blast to wtach, even without the Wolves.
And yes, there are many teams that'd like Theo's contract, but which of them are in a position to give us what we want in return in order to get said contract? I don't see it as very likely that we take on a long-term deal (i.e. longer than 2 years) in order to move Theo unless someone seriously sweetens it with picks/prospects, but who's going to do that? That's the problem with expiring deals - unless you're combining them with other talent in order to land a big-money guy like KG/Gasol etc., which we aren't, then you probably are going to have to take longer deals back to get anything valuable in return.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't move his contract unless it seriously benefits us to do so. I'd have to look at it on a case-by-case basis but in general I wouldn't be looking to move him. For example, if Memphis is REALLY serious about freeing cap space, I'd be willing to do a trade along the lines of Theo + Green + Boston's 1st for Darko, Lowry and Jason Collins. However I'll be the first to admit that would be a dumb move on their part unless they're really that serious about shedding money..
As to Andre Miller.. Hm. I don't think they want to trade him straight up for cap space at this point, and I really wouldn't sweeten the pot in order to land him because, while I like the guy, I don't see him as a long-term solution given his age (turns 32 in March). His contract runs through 2009, so it wouldn't hurt our cap space situation for that summer, but unless you plan on resigning him as your PG for a few years it doesn't make much sense to swap him for Theo. I certainly don't see them giving us anything in the way of prospects/picks because they like him as a player, his contract isn't killing them and they aren't in a hurry..
I'm all for landing a proven young C, but I can't think of any off-hand that aren't horribly overpaid for what they bring who would be available for Theo's contract. Dalembert maybe? He could be that shot-blocking rebounder that we need behind Al, but I haven't heard any rumblings of him being on the block, and he's playing well enough that he's actually looking like a decent deal for the money they gave him..
I guess I'd have to look at trade scenarios individually, so if you have any specific ideas I'd be happy to give my thoughts.
*Holy wall of text, by the way. Sorry for the ramblings!
Xand
Not really a post, just an FYI on Ratliff's contract - please consult the indefatigable Stop-n-Pop's postings at canishoopus.com. He points out in detail why that contract is NOT a resource UNLESS they trade him for some sort of assets--ANY assets!! If they do not it will be WASTED.
Wow, thank you very much. I appreciate that.
I guess the most frustrating thing about Ratliff's deal is that the Wolves will use it to throw 3-4 year deals at players like the Rhino and some unidentified frontcourt mid-level free agent. Is a 6'5" backup 4 at 3-4 years and $4 mil/year more valuable than 2 years of (for example) Brian Cardinal + a draft pick? Ratliff's money is already out the door and the team may as well spend 20-30% more on 2 contracts (again, to use the Grizz as an example: Darko and Cardinal) than to re-sign Smith and grab a frontcourt mid level player (4-5 mil). This team is going to spend around $65 mil next year no matter what. If they want to keep Gomes, Bassy, and the Rhino, they're going to have to spend some dough. If they don't, they'll have to sign players at 4-5 mil over 3-4 years...which isn't all that enticing when you're talking about an 11 win club adding complete unknowns. Trade the salary, get some frontcourt bodies with bloated contracts and 2 years left, and get another pick.
One final thing: McHale's line about the club needing to figure out if a shot blocker can play with the squad is one of the dumbest, most insulting things this front office has said in a long time. 11 wins and they're keeping the most valuable and movable commodity they have to see whether or not a shot blocking presence would be a good thing or not? This is the plan? And then what? Draft Theo's clone with the top pick? Sweet Hay-Zeus.
Well, I understand the issue with Theo's contract, but my point was that no one's going to give us anything for Theo's contract without us doing our due dilligence, i.e. taking on one of their bad contracts in return. So, the question becomes: is whatever we could get in the way of picks/prospects worth taking on a long, bad contract that would limit our cap flexibility in the future? Case-by-case basis, but I'd hesitate to take on a 3+ year big money deal unless it really helped us out.
Apparently, the issue is that too much on offense was forced on Dirk in the heavily iso approach in Dallas. Remember Dirk thrived in Nellie Ball where he had a great set up man named Nash. It should be interesting to see how it works. With that said, Harris was a real match-up nightmare for a lot of teams with his quickness. I am sure the Spurs remember looking old and slow when Harris was on the floor a couple of years ago.
Speaking of the Spurs they may a typical savvy Spur move, Kurt Thomas, for Barry, Elson and a 2009 draft pick. It shores up their post defense for the play-off run.
Kate:
That move interested me too. I think it's especially interesting in light of Dallas handing away Diop after Phoenix pulled the Shaq trade. In light of LA's big lineup (and New Orleans') Dallas got rid of one of their top-8 bigs while the Spurs added a vet to their frontcourt. Since I'll pretty much always side with the Spurs' front office judgment, I think this says even more about just how bad of a deal the Kidd trade was.
What will be funny about all of this is if Utah makes it out of the West and Kyle Korver turns out to be the move of the year.