First of all, a hat tip to PiPress columnist Charlie Walters, who wrote the other day that Trenton was going to the Mavs, a rumor that, citing Shooter's "spotty" reputation on such tidbits, I belittled.
Second, I don't like the deal. Greg Buckner is about two inches shorter and three years older than Hassell, which, given that both are defensive specialists, is not a good sign. Buckner has a little more range on his jumper but is less accurate overall as a shooter. Probably most significantly, Buckner is nearly $2 million cheaper over the next three seasons, and I suppose if the Wolves are going with youth anyway, the vets on the bench can be discounted.
[Update: A smart reader just informed me that because Buckner's third year is a team option and thus not guaranteed, Wolves could save up to $5.79 million in this deal.]
That said, Buckner was a quality defender in Denver who actually shot a little better (especially from the three point line) and defended a little worse than expected in Dallas. Along with money, I suspect this has its roots in the spat that occurred last spring, when Coach Wittman benched Hassell for a period of time and the relationship between the two was obviously strained.
Another thing: Buckner is not going to be able to get his stuff together and travel to Turkey at the drop of a hat. Thus he will be behind the curve when he does arrive for training camp.
To sum up, from the Wolves standpoint, losing Hassell saves some [make that potentially quite a bit of] money and loses a locker room leader from the bad old days at a time when they are trying to wipe the slate clean.
From my standpoint, Trenton Hassell was always a class act, a guy who would honestly answer questions with general good humor and became a crucial glue guy in the starting lineup almost from the moment he joined the team during the franchise's best-ever season in 2003-04. Two years ago when he was asked to look for his shot more often, he posted a career best 9.2 ppg, but always said that defense was his priority and his meal ticket. I saw him less than nine hours ago, sought him out as I was leaving the Wolves' media day, gave him a sympathetic kind-of "keep your chin up" sentence or two because we both knew he was on the outs with current braintrust. Then I wished him luck. And he got it, headed to a team that figures to go deep into the playoffs. Trenton Hassell will help grease that momentum.
oh yeah, and when i said something to the effect of "welcome to minnesota' to howard, he kind of grimaced at me. awesome.
hey guys,
awesome board. i live and work for an american newspaper in england, and somehow snagged myself a credential for the wolves-celtics game. today was the media day.
i briefly chatted with kg, but he looked disinterested and didn't give me much. i shagged an errant ball for chris richards. marko looked bored, ditto blount. buckets was really cool as was juwan howard and randy foye. but craig smith was and is the man. he's a real straight up dude, especially when i told him i was minneapolis born and raised. so that was all good.
not too much bball insight coming out of it, i guess, but damn was it cool as a fan and a reporter who usuallly doesnt' cover these guys to get to see them up close and personal.
kg did say he's having a blast learning the ropes of his new team, and mchale said he wasn't sure when i asked him if the wolves should've traded kg earlier.
The Asch piece was very good. What I gleaned from it was how much Garnett really did want to remain a Wolfie for the remainder fo his career. He has had to convince himself that he has to move on.
From the beginning of Garnett's career, he must have been told the line from coaches and teammates that "Its a business." But, I'm sure KG wasn't buying it deep down. For him it was more than a business. It was a passion and he had a code that put loyalty first. He believed his loyalty would be rewarded with loyalty in return. But, in the end, Taylor and the Wolves had to make a business decision and loyalty was tossed aside. Now that KG has learned this lesson he is moving on as best as he can. It is sad and Asch is probably has an inside angle into the business decision and loyalty, not ony because he has covered the Wolves for so long for the Strib, but because he was caught in a business decision as well and was forced to make the best of it and move on. I am sure that both will do well in their new careers, but there will always be some nostalgia for what was left behind.
I was reading Free Darko and there was a recent discussion of Lebron wearing the Yankees hat while attending a MLB in Cleveland. Shoals began by saying that Blacks often identify with nonlocal teams, but didn't back it up with anything. In the comments, I think, the race angle for Lebron's motivation was dispatched and Shoals and his interlocutors decided that Lebron was associating with the dominant team because winning was the most important thing to him - more important than loyalty.
I don't think that is true for KG. He really made Minnesota his home. He rooted for Torii and the Twins along with Culpepper, Moss and the Vikings. He was in attendance for most of the Lynx games, the majority of which were losses. KG was competitive and wanted to win - there is no doubt. But, he wanted to win in Minnesota and wasn't looking for an easy route to a championship. I think he also identified with the underdogs and there is no way KG wears a Yankee hat, while in the Metrodome for a Twins playoff series.
KG is now in green and he has to learn to live with it. I'll root for the new wolves and watch them grow, but I'll always wish the Wolves could have kept KG somehow. That it is a business has always been true of professional sports, but fans and players will always delude themselves of this fact and will identify teams and localities as attached through good and bad. Some more than others, but none more than KG.
Very good Garnett interview piece by Asch.
Contrast that with the garbage published by the Strib this morning because they were too cheap to send someone even for the London leg of the Wolves journey. Disgraceful, but par for the course these days at the Strib.
Great piece from Asch today on KG and his slow, steady dealing with no longer being a Wolf. You can check this link
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/steve_aschburner/10/08/gar...
or click the Steve Aschburner name on the left column of this site.
Antonymous - Marko was out with an ankle sprain.
I watched a bit of that game online until I couldn't take NBA.com's choppiness. Wasn't too impressed, but it's preseason - we looked pretty disjointed overall. It's really impossible to draw conclusions based on box scores, and I don't trust them at all...how much longer until plus-minus is a standard?
And as much as we love to hate Ricky, if he's on our opening day roster, he's going to be the glue guy on this team. While his minutes mean less time for Brewer, Green, Gomes, and Smith, he's still our most versatile offensive threat - a vet who can shoot, pass, and slash from the wing. Yes, he's capable of lapses on both ends of the court, but his decision-making is sound - he won't be making rookie mistakes out there either. If you want to build confidence in our young up-and-comers, it's important to have guys who won't try to do too much outside their roles. I don't want to start Gerald Green or Corey Brewer and have them think they need to be heroes (I'm especially worried about Green).
I did really like what I saw out of Gomes - looks like he is comfortable on the wing, and, like Smith, has good timing to shoot gaps and get rebounds when a shot goes up.
I don't like the DNP for Theo. It sounded like our young guys are impressed with his shot-blocking. Anyone know why Marko didn't play?
David B gives his observations on the game in the thread below, "Randy Foye, I'm the Leader."
Smith was in street clothes due to his injury. Looks like he is on the road to recovery though:
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/randy_wittman_conference_call_10-8_...
Telfair and Gomes got the most kudos from Wittman.
Coach's comments about McCants and Jaric seem muted. Sounds like Foye did not play like the team leader, at least in the first game.
Paul,
That is a load of rebounds for those three, but where was the Cookie monster?
In Europe today, Ricky Davis started and played 27 minutes, while Brewer only played 18 minutes and Gerald Green 14.
http://www.nba.com/games/20071006/MINEPT/boxscore.html
I just don't get it. This is not the way to distribute minutes while "rebuilding" and trying to develop young talent.
Green has been criticized about his shot selection, and the stats tonight are not encouraging. While I didn't watch the game so I have no way of knowing what types of shots he was taking, he took tied Davis for most shots on the team, taking 15 in 14 minutes.
Richard, Gomes and Jefferson combined for 39 rebounds. We can already see signs of a very different front court, at least when it comes to rebounding. I like it!
Gosh, I feel like I shouldn't even comment without a link, but I'll toss it up anyway. I don't have to live up to AK standards anyway.
It's not a news flash, but the team has far too many players on the roster. About a half dozen players are going into training camp thinking they could be traded at any time. It doesn't build team unity when the GM says there are 3 or 4 trades out there and you're not one of the 4 guys (+ Al Jefferson) whose face appears on the new tickets.
This is a team in a youth movement, but I'm worried about how that looks here. Earlier in the summer, McHale talked about getting good characters on the team, and appeared to follow it up but trading James for Howard. Since then, we traded away KG and Hassell, kept Davis and Blount, picked up Telfair, carry not one pass first player on the team and have 37 players fighting for the same position. Things need to go perfectly to avoid toxicity in the locker room, and it doesn't seem to be happening.
My own feeling (not being at media day, of course), is that Howard was talking with the older players because he feels that they, like himself, either will be or want to be traded. I guess he's not yet in the mentor mood.
I think the issues with McCants are well warranted, and the inclusion of Gerald Green in the KG trade would fit with the doubts by the FO, as both play the same position.
I did find it interesting that Wittman was praising Buckner, and Howard about their mentoring the guys on the team right away. Especially, since Howard has made it clear he would like to be someplace else, and apparently Buckner was disappointed as well with the trade, (http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/story/255270.html).
As a fan, I think I am more Intrigued than excited, as there are so many questions marks regarding this team.
So right away CSE responds with a free agent link in addition to his take. I continue to be energized by the general depth and quality of the feedback this site receives, and I'm really looking forward to the conversations we're going to have this season
Thanks both to Britt and AK for your posts.
I hadn't attached AK's thoughts with earlier posts about Davis' no-show and Blount and Jaric being sour on media day ... This behavior doesn't surprise me with any of the three. I am absolutely on board with any plans to get any of them out of here, even at discounted prices.
Same with Mad Dog and Howard ... who, similar to Hassell, don't appear have an important playing role on this team. I wish Howard seemed more willing to be the "veteran glue guy" ... but time will tell if he's willing to step into that role.
Subject change: Looking at the free agent list for next summer (This list is not up-to-date, but is a good starting point: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=2008FreeAgents), does anyone see players the Wolves could/should target with the Davis/Ratliff money coming off the books, or would they be better suited to trading those expiring contracts for picks and young prospects?
I wonder how many talented free agents would A.) Want to play for a cold-climate team in the early stages of rebuilding; and B.) Would fit in with the Wolves young core of Jefferson, Brewer and Foye.
On the other hand, mutually beneficial NBA trades are few and far between (Like Bill Simmons says, it's the No Balls Association), and the Wolves front office hasn't exactly done a stellar job of manufacturing good trades in the past.
AK, Britt and all,
Just saying, I certainly meant no disrespect to AK and was only intending to add to his comment. I agree with AK that we are mostly in agreement and I pesonally hope he continues to read tea leaves and offer his insight into the Wolves.
In response to the comments on AK...
Because AK and I shared an email exchange over my article posted after media day, he is basing his comments on what he has heard, read and discussed with me.
Now, as with any writer, you can take or leave my article for what you think it's worth. I wrote it based on what I saw, as well as through conversations with the players themselves.
Here's the link to the article...
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=5405
CSE--
I chimed in as a commenter, not a moderator (I know, it is hard to tell, and I reserve the right to flip flop whenever it suits my purposes) because I don't think anyone was being egregiously personal and because I believe AK can take care of himself, as he has subsequently demonstrated.
But as a commentator and a moderator, I really like it when people bring something to the table when they post, and a link to the coach's press conference in Turkey is exactly the sort of thing that makes this site a waystation for Wolves fans. And rather than any show of appreciation, AK got a few derisive or skeptical questions. I don't begrudge them, but I did want to point out that there was original content, in the tone and context of the coach's own words, for anyone who was interested, and I for one appreciate it.
Look, it is the week before the end of the dog days between the draft and the opening of exhibition play after the most tumultuous off-season in Timberwolves history, and die-hard fans are rightly scrounging for insights. Whether or not AK overreacted is not nearly as worthy a topic as the greater point he raises by his tea leaves reading: With too many guys on the roster and a youth movement afoot, there is going to be some deadly serious jockeying for position and some potentially nasty chemistry occurring as this thing gets sorted out. And that process--which could affect the entire season if not dealt with correctly--has now begun.
Come on guys! Leg cramps is not an injury, just a sign of dehydration, which is understandable after a long flight and a few days in a foreign city.
Speaking of real injuries...Amare Stoudamire just underwent his 3RD knee surgery, and Brandon Roy's heal problems are are back.
I think ATL was probably right to hold onto Horford instead of taking Amare in the Garnett swap. That guy is way to young to be having these kind of knee problems. I foresee a short career.
And Roy's continued foot problems should help put to rest some of the second guessing on drafting Foye.
Injuries aside, I continue to think that Foye has more upside than Roy. The kid has the confidence, attitude, and physical tools to develop into a very good player - be it two guard or point. I am thinking he is going to make a big leap forward this year.
OK, Britt, you take Nate, I'll handle Andy and Cheap Seats.
CSE - When the head coach is tossed an early pre-season "how are the guys gellin'" softball and he mentions only vets with a combined career total of zero Wolves minutes played it gives one pause. I suppose I could have said "Trouble may be brewing".
But remember, Davis was "out sick" for Media Day and Jaric and Blount were reportedly sourpusses. Three days later Witt is asked point blank about those guys and is conspicuously silent.
I am reminded of my mother's favorite adage "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing."
Andy - I don't think your interpretation of the vets' status is entirely contrary to mine. However, if their collective role is significantly diminished and they cannot be moved, then sooner or later trouble will percolate in that locker room.
On the subject of Rashad, cramps happen. But, if I take Britt's read from lunch last week (where Witt's praise of Rashad was unenthusiastic), combine it with the drumbeat of "McCants has to prove himself and step up" and throw in a dash of uneven Summer League play, I see a guy on the wrong side of the regular line up bubble.
This month may be the most important of Rashad's Wolves career. Hearing only about a late-practice cramp (sometimes viewed as an out of shape injury) makes me wonder if he will be passing cars this pre-season or getting lapped.
Britt- I know you're on deadline and don't expect you to take time on this right now, but here's my 2 cents regarding your recent comment:
I understand and appreciate that you want to keep things respectful in the comments portion of this site ... and I believe at one point you (rightfully) smacked me down for directing a comment at a poster and not an issue ... but I'm curious about the intent of your most recent post. Do you believe a line was crossed?
I don't disagree with your opinion of AK. I almost always enjoy his insight. But in this instance, I think he deserves to be called out a bit for mixing his opinion with evidence that doesn't necessarily match it.
In re-reading the comments directed at AK, I don't agree he's being "needled pretty harshly." Mine was the most critical and, biased as I might be, I think it was a fair point to raise. I read the linked conference call transcript and simply didn't draw the same conclusions as AK. No disrespect was intended and I apologize if it came off that way.
CSE
If only I were a better writer.
Britt and AK,
I realize that Britt's message may not have been addressing me, but please do not interpret my remarks as needling. It was just a lame attempt at humor and was intended to be at Mark Blounts expense rather than at AKs.
I obviously have been reading Mad Dog's blog and I'm also desperate to interpret any bit of news that comes our way.
I had not noticed the absence of Jaric, Blount, and Davis in Wittman's messages home and I agree that there is likely something behind these omissions.
I'm excited for any good news about Foye and Wittman's remarks definitely count. McCants injury is diconcerting, hopefully he'll bounce back.
Thanks for the link and your analysis, AK.
What sucks, is that since neither the Press or the Trib sent anyone to Turkey we are left only with Coach's calls home and blogs by Mad Dog, Craig Smith, and Ryan Gomes.
We should have put up a collection to finance a trip to Turkey for Britt. Maybe next year!
I think AK is perfectly capable of defending himself if he's so inclined, but I just want to mention that I consider him to be among the more perceptive and plugged-in members of this community. He's getting needled pretty harshly for making mountains out of molehills, a forgivable sin for a season-ticket holder four weeks away from the opening tap of a pivotal season. Nobody mentions that he also provided a link so that readers could hear what Wittman said yesterday (I'm tied up on a massive deadline and won't get to the Wolves, and these daily phone calls, until the end of the week). Sheesh.
AK,
According to Mad Dog's blog, Mark Blount is setting a good example by brushing his teeth with an electric tooth brush.
Of course, he also set a bad example by failing to bring his electric convertor so that he could safely use his toothbrush. Apparently, unfortunately, Mad Dog lent him his convertor.
How is Blount going to learn to make proper defensive rotations if no one makes him take responsibility for his actions?
A.K.
I won't predict anything about the future of Foye, but Point guards are not easy to judge during their rookie year. Their is too large a learning curve. I am excited about the prospect of seeing great improvement in Foye's game this year. So, I feel good about his confidence level and the report from Wittman.
Negative number one might be a positive. It could mean that the Wolves do not have large plans for any of the players. Perhaps, a trade in the works for Jaric and Davis (for Jason Williams?). I don't know how they can trade Blount, but if it is possible it would be great. Of the three I would be okay with having Jaric around, although not a sulking Jaric. Personally, Davis and Blount have wore out thei welcome from this fan and I don't see how either can fit in the plans for the Wolves.
McCants injury sounds minor (cramps). I wouldn't worry too much about it. If cramps from heavy workouts during twofers is the worst of his injury problem, he'll be okay.
A.K. - That's quite a leap of faith on your part. Guys don't get mentioned by the coach and there is trouble brewing? A player cramps up and he's incapable of playing better? I have no problem with speculation, but don't try to back it up with weak evidence.
Jesse - I would rather gain the cap space Ricky will provide when he walks after this season than trade him for a mediocre player with a bad contract. In that case, nothing is something. That said, it would be nice to see him moved for a draft pick or two and/or cap-friendly prospects prior to the trade deadline.
Wittman had his second conference call today from Turkey - you can see it at the Timberwolves website. I read one real positive and two negatives in his comments.
The positive is Randy Foye and his confidence and assertiveness on the court. Wittman says Foye is a different person this season.
Negative number one - when asked about the vets and young guys mixing and how that's going Wittman only talked about Howard and Buckner and what a nice job they are doing despite being brand new. Not one word about Jaric, Davis, Blount. Trouble is brewing.
Negative number two is when asked about any injuries sustained only Rashad (and Theo) are mentioned. McCants cramped up and had to sit. The more I hear the more I think Rashad isn't going to take his game to the next level.
Here's the link if you want:
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/wittman_conference_call_071002.html
Of all the guys most fans want gone, Hassell was the easiest to move, so I'm not ready to start praising anyone just yet. I'm still worried about the impact of the sulking vets, especially since Blizz and Pretty Ricky have been around this group before. I mean, it's just like the old Celtics, except trade a disgruntled Pierce for a disgruntled Marko Jaric...that's gotta make for bizarre chemistry, right?
Also, it sounds like Craig Smith won't be playing at all overseas due to his ankle. I'm definitely taking the afternoon off to watch that preseason game anyway (1:30 p.m. central).
Britt, you are perfectly careful, about how you described your talks with the T-Wolves upper personal, on how they refrained from mentioning certain names.
The Hassel trade is pointless. Should have traded him for draft picks. Because why keep stacking 1 position? We should have moved Hassel for playing time room at the 2/3. Can you please explain why we need a defensive specialist? To make up for when Ricky Davis doesn't feel like playing?
Also... I am going to make a call now...
We will not trade Ricky Davis. The end of the year will come, he will leave. We will get nothing for him. This is typical MN management style.
I believe that McHale thinks Ricky is going to be the leader of the team. I know Ricky thinks he is going to be the leader of this team. They are going to give him the #1 scoring option. McHale wants to make Ricky Davis so happy that he'll have a great year and want to re-sign with us. McHale is an idiot. I don't usually resort to name calling. And the amount of success he attains this year will not outshadow the amount of failure he has accumulated over the years he has been here.
Wittman is still cluelss. Comparing us to the Chicago Bulls? ROFL! First, the Bulls took chances on Tyson Chandler, and Eddie Curry..do either of them play for the Bulls? nope. Second, they took Corey Benjamin, and throw trenton Hassel in there in the early re-building years in Chi-town. But they had a hard nosed coach named Scotty! Sorry we don't have a scotty. And that's the difference. Scotty wasn't gonna take the mediocre play, he found guys who could. If the intention is to have Ricky D. as the "Main man" that there shows the difference between coaches. How one coach placates and enables and the other..well... intervenes and solves problems..
Guys, I've said it before, I am excited about the new season, but at the same time... I worry about the coaching. Hopefully the coaches AREN'T listened to, too often. Because it will be on "da kids" to win games that the coaches have lost by their coaching.
See I beleive Da kids can win if they learn to play with one another, I believe they will lose the more they listen to the coaching staff.
Please McHale make another trade so we don't have to keep discussing this dud Hassell deal!
28 posts though. Pretty impressive.
Can't wait for next week's MIN-BOS game (which if you haven't seen, is going to be on ESPN2).
Solid take, Andy B. I agree across the board.
From what I heard and read, Hassell, Jaric and Blount were not behaving like team players at Media Day. Hassell's sour demeanor is easy to understand given that he was on his way out the door.
It would be great if the Wolves can off-load either Mark or Marko before the season (its unrealistic to expect both gone).
The team has taken only positive player personnel steps since the end of the season. Some steps were small, others large, but all appear to net out as positives thus far. I include both draft and trade decisions.
The biggest question mark for me right now is the extension granted in May to Coach Wittman. I hope he has it in him to bring this team along.
I agree with Pete that the recent trades have all improved the Wolves long-term position. With Garnett, the Wolves stockpiled players with long-term contracts to provide the stability necessary for building around garnett as he closed out his career in Minnesota. Either through bad luck, managerial incompetence, poor performance of the players, or some combination, this plan did not work out. The wolves were in a very bad position with Garnett and a host of players with long-term contracts that inhibited the Wolves from improving the roster around Garnett. Mike James for Howard began the process of improving the Wolves position by replacing a bad contract signed to a bad player with a better and shorter contract signed to a good and stable player. The Garnett trade brought young players and draft picks. Hudson's contract was bought out. And, the Hassell trade could save the Wolves more significant money. We are now left with two long-term contracts (Jaric and Blount) that most likely overpays each for the services they can provide a young Wolves team in the process of rebuilding - especially in the case of Blount.
I won't go as far as saying that Hassell is over-rated, but I think people are being a little delusional to think we could have gotten more for him. The same with Mike James and, I think, the same would be for Ricky Davis, Mark Blount and Jaric. Because of contracts and the fact that all of these players have played on losing teams the past three years, no one is going to be willing to give up much for any of them and the Wolves were (and still are) in the unfortunate position of needing to unload the players with bad contracts to make room for the new up and coming players.
Mchale and Wolves management deserves scorn for not being able to sustain a winning team around Garnett, but I think so far, they have done an adequate job of rebuilding for a new era and the jury is still out (and probably will be out for a couple years or more) on whether or not their efforts at rebuilding will be successful.
All I can say is I am two more trades away (Blount and Davis) for mediocre players that won't tie the WOlves future to bad contracts and I will be able to finally breathe easily over the prospects of watching the Wolves lose while learning, improving and developing a rotation around the still unknown superstar that will compete in the NBA in, say, 2009 or 2010.
I'm a little confused about the recent trades. Either GMs promise to return favors to other GMs (Joe Smith without the writing), or we have become the Montreal Expos. We exist only to make other teams better.
Also, I don't think Wittman's coaching is overrated. I'm pretty sure everyone thinks he stinks until proven otherwise.
Save the "over-rated" comments for Mark Blount's offense (which is horribly inconsistent), Ricky Davis's defense (which never exists except when he gets into an ego battle with someone from the opposition) or Wittman's coaching (which can be proven by a quick look at last year and Cleveland).
But Hassel's defense is not over-rated. KG has said many times that his defense is stellar and a boost in the arm for the team. Good enough for me.
As for the stellar front office move, you must be referring to the front office in Dallas. They acquired another piece to their playoff team. Whether or not it's a big contract or not, it's a contract that Dallas can move in the future if they need to. They now have the player that eveyone else wishes we could have gotten more in return. I doubt anyone had Greg Buckner on their short list.
It will be interesting to see how the 8 or 9 guys who are not in the 8 to 9 guy rotation handle the lack of playing time. I smell more upcoming trades and settlements.
When we picked up Trenton from Chicago, nobody was more surprised and happier than me over the role he played with the Wolves. The defensive specialist and glue-guy were apt descriptions and nobody could call his contributions to the Wolves as over-rated during the MV3 season. When Portland offered him a contract and we matched them to secure Hassel to a long-term contract, it seemed a lot of money for a role player with Szerbiack coming back, but most people still must have been happy to have him back along with the rest of the roster the next season.
The disappointment the next season had to be laid at Cassell and Sprewell feet. The following season with a Casey as a new coach and, the loss of the other Chicago pick up in Hoiberg from the MV3 season, and the Szerbiack trade and suddeenly, Hassell and KG are the consistent Mainstays through the constant disappointments since the most memorable season in Wolves history.
It is hard to criticize Hassell or KG for the pitfalls of the Wolves over the past three years, because they are both upstanding people and class acts. However, for whatever reason(s), these two quiet leaders were not able to keep what appeared to be talented rosters together and fighting for playoff positioning in the Western conference. WE have heard the criticisms of both players before and in both cases these criticisms are true, but unfair considering all the intangibles and immeasurables that each player brings to a team. However, after three losing seasons and missing the playoff both KG and Hassel deserve some criticism for the teams disappointments, despite both being class-acts, imo.
That said, I wish them both success with their new teams that each one deserves.
I too will miss Trenton, for all the reasons already enumerated in the thread. I'm glad they sent him to a good team, something he deserves.
Meanwhile, as far as the Wolves themselves are concerned, it wasn't that great a trade. We still have too many guys on the roster, and I thought Hassell was one of our best chances to package a lousy guy and/or contract along with a decent one. But maybe I'm underestimating the intelligence of the average NBA front office when it comes to avoiding trades for guys whose true value is much lower than what they're being paid.
Thanks for the analysis Britt. I know you have been a staunch Hassell supporter.
Neumms,
I'd say James and Reed for Howard certainly qualifies as a solid trade, both financially and basketball wise. Do you disagree?
What I can't get over is Pete's line "another solid trade by our front office." What was the first one? Trading Hassell was the easiest move they could make. He actually has value and is only somewhat overpaid. If all our brain trust could bring back was an older player with a shorter contract, it doesn't bode well for what they'll do with Jaric. Britt, whatever happened to Detroit liking him?
oooh. sick burn
As a Trenton fan, I'm a little disappointed we didn't get more for him (as in a 2-for-1 package), but I'm also happy that he's going to play on a contender. I was honestly hoping for Cleveland (for when LBJ won't expend energy on guarding a superstar) or Boston (can backup both Allen and Pierce's spot and provide D - again, relieving stars of THAT burden). But hey, Dallas was willing to spend the money (as always), and now have a nice complement for Josh Howard. Every year people fawn over big name free agents (OMG DARKO AND LEWIS!!!!), but it's always the little deals, the rebuilding clubs willing to part with talent in exchange for financial flexibility, that makes the difference. Glue guys just don't have stats.
Defense is going to be the one thing I have a feeling I'll miss the most about our new lineup. Brewer may be touted as a stopper, but I can't name a single rookie who could consistently slow NBA-level swingmen. I'm really hoping Theo gets some minutes, as we've never really had a shot-blocking C before.
And I don't want to dump gas on a fire, but I actually *liked* Trenton's offense! He was rarely above the third option, but when he drew a weak defender, he could usually back him down, do a spin move to get free, shoot the rainbow, and (most importantly) not turn the ball over. Yeah, opponents' D could collapse because of his lack of 3-pt range, but Trenton proved you don't need to have a completely sick handle just to play SG in this league, just play within your role, and he did.
I agree that it would have been nice to unload some more of the roster along with Hassell, but with the money the deal saves I think the trade makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves offer Buckner a buyout so he can go to a better team as a role player.
As for Trenton's D over the years, I think underrated would be a more apt description. Hed doesn't get the respect from the refs that many other lockdown defenders get (I'm thinking of Bowen here) making his defensive contribution all the more impressive. He also is a real class act and has always put the team in front of himself. I was really happy he went to a contending team, I think they'll love him in Dallas.
Pete--
You "just call 'em as you see 'em" and yet you want me to be the one to provide documentation. Funny how that works.
Fortunately I have many deadlines I am procrastinating on and thus wasted the time to look up some numbers. You and other readers should not consider this a precedent.
Last year, 2006-07, Ray Allen played only two of the four games versus the Wolves. In the second he blistered them for more than 35 points but needed 30 shots, making 14. But the first, on 12/29/06, Hassell "locked him up" for a 4-16 FG night en route to a 101-82 Wolves win. Allen had better luck in 05-06, shooting 43-93 FG in 4 games. In 2004-05, Hassell was usually coming off the bench for Wally Szczerbiak, but there was a game where he started and played 40 minutes and "locked up" Allen for 7-23 FG. And of course in 2003-04, he held Allen to nights of 5-22 FG and 4-15 FG on either side of Allen going off for 13-24 FG.
Meanwhile, during the past four years with Allen defending him, the offensively "diseased" Hassell shot 32-57 from the field.
Let's look at Paul Pierce and Hassell. Last year, no contest, Pierce went 9-16 while Hassell was a putrid 1-8. Hassell left the other Celtic game in the first minute with a sprained ankle, so I assume the Gomes embarrassment was the first game.
In 2005-06 Pierce shot 7-23 and 8-17 in the two games (15-40 overall) while Hassell shot a combined 13-20 (6-9 and 7-11). In 2004-05 Pierce was 8-16 and 6-16 (14-32 overall) while Hassell went 4-6 and 6-10 (10-16 overall). And again Hassell ruled in 2003-04, limiting Pierce to 6-18 and 4-21 (10-39 overall) while going 4-6 and 4-10 (8-16 overall).
Pierce and Allen were obviously the keys to their respective team's offenses. I'll grant you that field goal percentage alone underrates their contribution, since both shoot treys and get to the line. But I think looking at FG percentage is instructive in the sense that the best you could reasonably expect is to make them work hard for their points and to either make them expend energy on defense or suffer the consequences at the other end of the court. I think the numbers demonstrate that Hassell did that.
BTW, I also stumbled over some old "Wolves Notes" from late in the 2004-05 season, which falls in your 2-3 year range. They came up with these numbers for big scorers guarded by Hassell the final month of the season:
3/10/05 Dwyane Wade 6-17 FG
3/20/05 Tracy McGrady 4-22 FG
3/26/05 Vince Carter 7-17 FG
3/27/05 Corey Magette 4-18 FG
4/3/05 Peja Stojakovic 7-18 FG
4/13/05 Baron Davis 3-18 FG
It remains to be seen if Corey Brewer and/or Ryan Gomes can improve on Hassell's performance, but he was thrown on the other team's premiere perimeter scorer for a reason, even when Sprewell was on the ballclub. I think calling him overrated on defense, even "slightly," does him an injustice, especially when he got no recognition on any of the NBA all-defensive teams (which look at steals and blocks and not the sort of on-ball game Hassell plays).
Don't know if the "thanks" for calling you out was sarcastic or not, but the rule around here is to be pointed but respectful--no personal slight intended. I asked how often you watched the Wolves because it is difficult for me to believe that someone who watched Hassell consistently during his tenure with the Wolves would call him overrated on defense. You're entitled to your opinion. And you'll notice that I didn't demand that you back it up with numbers.
If you recall the Wolves playoff run a few seasons ago, he stifled Melo and held more than his own against Peja. He is the perfect fit for a team where all he has to do is defend, but, and this has been exposed in recent seasons, when Hassell has to do more than just play defense, it seems that his game overall goes down hill. He is not a stand out player by any means, he is more of an unsung hero of sorts.
I think he'll be great for Dallas.
I want to add that Trenton Hassell is a good guy and I certainly have nothing against him personally. I just call em as I see em. Hopefully Buckner will act in a professional manner just as Hassell did throughout his tenure in the Twin Cities.
Please provide documentation to when Hassell "locked up" superstars such as Dirk, Pierce, and Allen in the past 2-3 years. He is a solid defender with long arms and I appreciate his efforts in defending bigger and stronger players for us. But he is not an elite defensive player and was "slightly" overrated in accordance with his salary and the props he receives for his defense from some of our fans.
Thanks for calling me out, and yes I watch the games. I have season tickets so I was able to watch T-Hass get lit up by the likes of Charlie Bell and new Wolf Ryan Gomes last season.
I liked Trenton Hassell, I liked that he was willing to do the "dirty work" and simply play defense. I wish his offensive game had become more than he showed with the Wolves, and I always wondered what happened to the 3 point shot he had had when he played with the Bulls. Trenton was destined to be traded as soon as they brought Corey Brewer on board, since Corey's strength at this point is his defense as well. And if Corey is to be part of the core of the rebuilding team, then Trenton's contribution would wane necessarily. I am glad Trenton found a home with the Mavs, and I wish him luck.
Yes, the Wolves would do well to do 2 for 1 deals to trim their roster down. I would imagine they have been trying for much of the summer to accomplish just that. However, if they cannot do 2 for 1 deals by the end of training camp, it makes sense to have "easy buy-out" contracts both in terms of length of contract, and money owed the player instead. I would imagine we may continue to see such deals in the course of the season.
Pete--
Hassell overrated? When was the last time he was named to either the first or second NBA all defensive team? Do you watch the Wolves? Who did Minnesota use to lock up Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Dirk Nowitzski, etc? Dallas obviously doesn't think he's overrated, given that they are paying double for Hassell because they are already over the luxury cap.
I also notice you've gone from "diseased" to "limited" in describing Hassell's offensive game. You obviously have a low opinion of the guy. Your greater point about this being all about salary is well taken. That Hassell is overpaid is debateable, but let's not forget that the Wolves matched Portland's offer three years ago, so at least two ballclubs thought he was worth the dough.
Let's also remember that Hassell didn't openly bitch when the Wolves handed his starting spot to Szczerbiak despite the nice mesh the Wolves had achieved in getting to the conference finals the year before. He's a team guy who sublimates his ego and busts his butt doing the dirty work. Pardon me if I regard him more favorably than, say, Gerald Green, a guy who averaged nearly 20 field goal attempts per 48 minutes last season while shooting below 42 percent and doesn't have much of a clue about how to play defense.
I believe I am as enthusiastic as the next guy about the Great Rebuilding Project, but dismissing Hassell's contribution and underrating his value doesn't have to be part of the package.
Hassell was not a good trading chip. He is a slightly overrated defender and a limited offensive player making $4 mill over each of the next 3 seasons.
Here's why it's "pointless." Being that Hassell was one of our "better" trading chips, it would have been helpful to use him to help clear out other deadwood from the roster, if possible. Instead, we do a 1 for 1 trade that does NOTHING for helping clear up our roster overcrowding. There are some monetary savings, but big deal. That's not something the fans should have to be concerned with.
So, at this point we've still got 17 players on our roster. Two guys need to be cut before October 31st. Then, going into the games, three players will need to be either sent to the D-League or deactivated every game. The only D-League eligible players are Foye, Brewer, Smith, and Richard. Richard might go to the D-League, but I wouldn't mind having him around to tell you the truth.
So, our roster is still fucked in terms of who gets minutes and where. There are simply TOO MANY players on this team. The roster needs to be cut down, and concise roles, a rotation, and a pecking order needs to be determined asap or possible infighting, jealousy, frustration, squabbling etc will develop.
Anybody that thinks this trade is "pointless" just doesn't get it. The Wolves are all about rebuilding and the future, and this trade is another step in that direction.
Hassell is a waste of space on the Wolves roster. As a very good role player, he only has value to contending teams. If the Wolves are trying to develop their young nucleus, giving Hassell minutes at the expense of say, Green or McCants, would hinder the plan. Now if you stick to the plan and keep Hassell on the bench, your are likely to create some bad chemistry (even as good a guy as Hassell is).
When it's time to add vets to this team, not having Hassell's contract around (at at time Hassell will be a little long in the tooth) will be a big help.
I have a feeling fans of SA, Phoenix and Houston are underestimating how big a move this is for Dallas. Hassell is going to be great in his role for the Mavs.
Can we next get rid of Ricky in the ultimate addition by subtraction trade?