Most of the time I either ignore or mock Sid Hartman's ravings--it's better on the blood pressure. But this morning's Strib column, entitled "Minneapolis City Council could step up, but it won't," hit a nerve and continues to aggravate. So I guess today is the day to call out this asshole.
The thrust of the piece is that the City of Minneapolis won't step up and throw more money at the beleaguered new Twins stadium to bail out the inadequate planning done by Hennepin County Commissioner Mike Opat when financing the deal. Sid starts by recalling a meeting from 1995, when NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman was trying to move hockey's Winnipeg Jets into the Target Center.
Wheelock Whitney, one of the great civic leaders here, made a speech pointing out that Metropolitan Stadium, Met Center, Target Center and the Metrodome had been built without taxing the public. The Metrodome was funded on a liquor tax. And maybe this was the time for the city of Minneapolis to step up and provide some funding so the North Stars could be replaced. But the city council did nothing. And the Jets went to Phoenix and became the Coyotes. And though the NHL eventually returned with the Wild, Xcel Energy Center and Target Center continue to compete for big shows and lose money.
Leaving aside Sid's quaint notion that a liquor tax isn't a tax on the public, he conveniently forgets that 1995 was also the year the Minneapolis City Council agreed to purchase Target Center from original Wolves owners Marv Wolfenson and Harvey Ratner for $85 million. Without that purchase, Glen Taylor wouldn't have bought the team and patrons in another city would have been watching Kevin Garnett for the past dozen years.
Sid continues:
Well today, court hearings will be held on the condemnation situation of the land that will be home for the new Twins stadium. The price could come out a lot higher than the $13.5 million the space has been taxed on. The Pohlad family has agreed to pay an additional amount to help Hennepin Country [sic] when and if the condemnation comes out higher. But Hennepin County Commissioner Mike Opat points out that a lot of the infrastructure connected with the ballpark will have to be eliminated if the condemnation figure comes out high. Here would be a chance for Barbara Johnson, Lisa Goodman and other geniuses in the city council to say, "If that happens, we will contribute."
Again, it is difficult to know if Sid has been rendered stupid by his blatant, all-consuming self-interest or his advancing years; either way, he doesn't seem to understand the most fundamental aspects of the way the new Twins stadium is being funded. I'll make it as simple as possible. Johnson, Goodman, and every other member of the Minneapolis City Council represent people who live in Minneapolis. People who live in Minneapolis also live in Hennepin County, and thus quite understandably make the overwhelming bulk of their purchases within Hennepin County. The largest single source of funding for the new Twins stadium--far more than the contribution made by the team's billionaire owner, the wealthiest of all baseball owners, by the way--comes from an increase in the Hennepin County sales tax.
Memo to Sid: Johnson, Goodman and, more importantly, all the people they represent, are already contributing far more than their fair share of the stadium cost. Not only that, but after repeatedly voicing their opposition to funding new playgrounds for sports billionaires, and passing an citywide amendment to limit the City's contribution to any such boondoggle to $10 million, they had this burden unilaterally placed upon them by Governor Pawlenty and the Minnesota State Legislature, who had to pass and sign a bill specifically overruling a provision in state law that stipulated voter approval of projects like the Twins stadium through a democratic referendum. It is not the fault of Johnson, Goodman or the people of Minneapolis that one of the landowners on the proposed Twins stadium site has shrewdly bargained for the best deal he can get, a factor that somehow wasn't planned for when the Twins deal was being railroaded through the general public.
A minute ago I mentioned blatant self-interest on Sid's part. Most people are acquainted with his biography: How he grew up poor selling the paper he now writes for on the streetcorners; and how he is now worth millions and millions of dollars. Now very very few people work as hard as Sid Hartman, even in his mid-80s, and he has invested the money he has earned from his journalistic labors wisely. But the plain fact is that sports in Minnesota have been very very good to Sid. One might even suggest that before he belittles the representatives of Minneapolis taxpayers for not forking over more public dollars to enhance the entertainment experience of endeavors he just happens to make his living covering, he might want to consider his own lucrative and longstanding conflicts of interest on the subject. Maybe he could even rough out a personal profit/loss statement with respect to how ballparks have eased his existence, and make appropriate amends. Put up or shut up, I think it's called.
And because I don't plan on ever writing about Sid again, one parting shot. This is a guy who in the decades I have observed and read him, turns the feisty journalistic axiom on its head: He comforts the comfortable and afflicts the afflicted. He is a slave to power, especially if the one wielding it has bullying tendencies, crawling furthest up the ass of people like Bob Knight and George Steinbrenner. And he is rude, mean and disparaging to those he considers beneath him in the social pecking order, especially but not exclusively with respect to media and communications assistants earning comparative peanuts trying to facilitate communication between petulant atheletes and team executives and journalists like me and Sid. Sid Hartman enables fascistic tendencies in human beings more than anyone I've ever met. Thank god he has devoted his boundless energy and passion to sports instead of politics.
Okay, end of rant. On an equally unpleasant subject, there are some who suggested over the weekend that Kevin Garnett's agent, Andy Miller, had either not consulted with his client or was merely posturing for a better contract down the road when he claimed Garnett would definitely opt out of his contract if traded to the Boston Celtics. In any event, now that both sides have simultaneously acknowledged that KG is on the trading block and, with conditions, amenable to being traded, it is probably impossible to stuff the genie back in the bottle. If a deal is contingent on a renegotiation of Garnett's contract after his opt-out year, that can't happen with another team until I believe July 1, but certainly after the draft, meaning that teams with earlier picks such as Atlanta or Boston, may be covertly doing the Wolves' bidding. At least that is the way one source explained it to me, and I hope I have portrayed it accurately.
David Brauer points out that a deal could be structured that gives the Wolves the package from the Celtics they supposedly wanted, and gets KG to Phoenix, where he wants to go. Here's how he pitches it:
The Celtics would get: Amare Stoudamire, James Jones, Boris Diaw, Marcus Banks and Troy Hudson. The Wolves would get Al Jefferson, the #5 overall draft pick, Wally Szczerbiak, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and Theo Ratliff's expiring contract. Phoenix would get Kevin Garnett paired with Steve Nash and Shawn Marion, and, here's the rub, a huge hit on their salary cap, involving luxury tax dollars that Suns ownership says it doesn't want to pay.
The point is, the KG speculation game is almost certainly not going to end with Garnett staying in Minnesota; not after this much blood has been put in the water by both sides. As might be expected, the best clearinghouse for KG-related information around the net is at I Heart KG, which you can get to by hitting the link at the side of the page.
Finally, with the draft now just three days away, my tolerance for speculation is higher, to the point where I will throw up an open thread on Thursday morning for any and all who want to comment--the usual cavaet applies, however: no one-line ejaculations, or other stupidity. Keep it smart and original. Relying simply on what I have been told or inferred from sources I respect, some within the team, I think Minnesota will draft either Corey Brewer or Jeff Green at #7. I think Brewer will be gone by then (maybe to a team picking on the Wolves' behalf). I'm lousy at this sort of thing, but I'm guessing Green is the guy who gets announced on Thursday night.


According to ESPN, the deal is probably being killed by Steven Belkin, an owner who can kill any deal or signing that goes over the salary cap. If that's true, then sending out Tyronn Lue, Salim Stoudemire, Solomon Jones, and Zaza Pachulia would keep them under the salary cap, and thus in a position where Belkin can't veto it. I hope that deal is acceptable to Billy Knight.
ESPN is now reporting that the 3-way trade with Suns and Hawks is killed by Atlanta. Apparently, sources now say no deal before the draft, if at all.
Sigh. Leave it to the wolves to let this blow up in the media for weeks and then do nothing. Something has to give. I agree with Britt that it's difficult to see KG playing with the Wolves this season after all this drama.
And now, the Shawn Marion deal!
1) Shawn Marion to the Hawks
Kevin Garnett to the Suns
Tyronn Lue, Anthony Johnson, Marcus Banks, and Zaza Pachulia to the Wolves
This is the backbone of the deal, but there are a few different variations that are possible, mainly involving Josh Childress, Salim Stoudamire, and/or Leandro Barbosa. My sense is that this deal wouldn't be nearly as well liked by Atlanta or Minnesota (though Phoenix is probably doing backflips about it, especially if Josh Childress went there). It would be almost impossible to get Atlanta to surrender the #3 pick without Amare Stoudemire (which is what the Wolves seem to desire above all else in the trade deals), meaning that the Wolves would have to come away with something different, but still salable to Wolves' fans at large (all 30 of us left).
Now, the absolute best version of the deal I can make (for the Wolves), goes like this:
2) The 24th pick, the 29th, and Shawn Marion to the Hawks
Kevin Garnett and Tyronn Lue to the Suns
The third pick, Leandro Barbosa, Anthony Johnson, Marcus Banks, and Zaza Pachulia to the Wolves
This allows gives the Wolves a better center and a better point guard, and a chance to draft two new forwards. The truly ideal version of this trade would have Josh Childress also coming to Minnesota, but I don't think there's any way that Atlanta could let Childress, Pachulia, and the #3 go. I find the aforementioned deal hard enough to swallow as is. I think there is, at best, a 40% chance that Barbosa would leave Phoenix, and that is only if the Wolves were adamant that he was part of the deal.
For the first scenario, the Wolves would have a 2007/08 salary of $61,448,256, and a 2008/09 salary of $48,195,185. For the second scenario, it would be until 2009/2010 for the Timberwolves to be under the cap ($63,548,256, $54,295,185, and $47,189,856.00).
Now, there are somethings that need to be done for the Wolves regarding roster space. The Stoudemire deals from the prior post would leave 15 players on the roster, while the Marion deals would leave 14. Now, we don't know what type of deals the Wolves have worked for Ricky Davis, so it possible to see several players leave with him (I don't know when teams are required to be at 15 or less, but I believe it is sometime in October). Beyond that, I think that any Garnett deal is going to have to result in buyouts. From a talent standpoint, Troy Hudson would be the most likely to be cut, but he has $18,909,000 left on his contract. From a cost standpoint, the most likely victim would be Mark Madsen, as he has the cheapest non-Ricky Davis non-Craig Smith contract on the team ($7,890,000, and I think it says something about the front office that this is the third cheapest contract on the team). I don't know whether you can immediately buy out the guys you get in a trade, but Marcus Banks (talent, $17,280,000), Anthony Johnson (cost, $2,860,000), and Tyronn Lue (cost, $3,500,000) are the most likely cuts if you can.
On a final note, I heard on KFAN that Taylor has issued an ultimatum to get a deal done (during Chad Hartman, I believe), which I would imagine severely weakens the Wolves hand in trading, if it's true.
I agree. I've gone in the space of just a few days from "never trade KG" to "let's just get this over with already". Face it, folks, KG is gone from the Wolves forever, by the end of next season at the very latest, so we might as well try to get as much of value for him as we can. Better to trade him now than make some hurried deal for 50 cents on the dollar at the deadline next year, or worse yet keep him till the bitter end and get nothing in return.
I liked the Hollinger article; it made a lot of sense, especially the stuff about younger guys being better--the age of a player is a very important consideration in evaluating baseball prospects, so why wouldn't it be the same for basketball? I'd like to see us end up with Atlanta's picks and use one of them on Conley, and the others on big guys. Maybe Nick Fazekas will be there in the second round and we can see if he is really the sleeper Hollinger predicts.
Most pundits are calling KG to the Lakers dead in the water, but here's a fun piece that imagines this very scenario. If you haven't read Paul Shirley's occasional entries for the "Sports Nut" column on Slate, well, you should. The guy is funny...my favorite Shirley line, "rooting for the Spurs is like rooting for cancer." Anyway, here's a link to his entry wondering what would happen if KG & Kobe teamed up in LA. Enjoy
http://www.slate.com/id/2169154/
I agree the rumored PHX/ATL/MIN deal would seem likely. A jolt for three different teams in three different situations.
And if it goes through, how about the intestinal fortitude of Steve Kerr? Talk about making your mark immediately.
Britt -
While I think a deal through Atlanta is the most likely (and most beneficial to the Wolves), it would require the Wolves to take on a bloated roster (though not necessarily a bloated payroll). The Wolves can avoid getting salary back by using Atlanta's salary cap space to their advantage. Playing around with the ESPN Trade Machine, I've found that the trade (outside of draft picks) would be:
1) Amare Stoudemire to the Hawks
Kevin Garnett and Salim Stoudemire to the Suns
Solomon Jones, Anthony Johnson, Marcus Banks, Zaza Pachulia, and Kurt Thomas to the Wolves.
2) Amare Stoudemire to the Hawks
Kevin Garnett to the Suns
Anthony Johnson, Marcus Banks, Speedy Claxton, and Kurt Thomas to the Wolves
Any other scenario would have to result in Atlanta giving up one of its building blocks (Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Shelden Williams, etc.) that isn't replaced by Amare. As for the Wolves, they would either take back $18,736,482 (scenario 1) or $20,916,028 (scenario 2). I think scenario 1 is infinitely more appealing to the Wolves, since Kurt Thomas and Anthony Johnson are expiring contracts, and Zaza Pachulia and Solomon Jones have two years left. Marcus Banks' contract would have to be eaten by the Wolves, but he can join Troy Hudson on the overpaid guards side of the bench. Additionally, if Kurt Thomas is foolish enough to opt out of his contract, the Wolves would save $7,821,482, which would bring the contracts' amount down to $10,915,000. This would give the Wolves a team salary of $58,677,256 ($66,768,443 with Thomas, both of these prior to drafting and off season mid-level deals).
Philosophically, I think a three-way with Phoenix and Atlanta is the most likely trade scenario yet. Kevin McHale has always believed in smashmouth, low-post basketball and wants picks and expiring contracts in exchange for KG. But, like Andy B., I don't know how they lose salary without an incredibly bloated roster.
About the only straight swap that gets Minnesota Amare for KG is including Kurt Thomas, who has an existing player option for $8 M. Anybody know when that has to kick in? Can Minnesota obtain Thomas before July 1 and then have Thomas immediately opt out? If so, then Wolves have to get only about $14M back from Atlanta. But the #3 and #11 picks plus Zaza Pachulia and Anthony Johnson gets you less than halfway there.
Midlife, I too remember the bad bad, old pre-KG days. But if Minnesota had three of the top 11 picks in a very deep draft, plus Juwon Howard and Pachulia to beef up their front line while the kids come along, it would be more hopeful than the pre-KG period.
Bottom line, if you think KG and the Wolves management are going to be able to put the machinations of the past two weeks behind them, you have let wishful thinking override common sense. This train is leaving the station, if not in the next 20 hours (which is my belief) then in the next six months.
As far as the trades with multiple teams and draft picks. Isn't the problem with Minnesota getting 3 draft picks from Atlanta and/or one pick from Boston for KG that the Wolves also have to take back enough players to equal KG's salary. That means we get some bad players dumped on us - we hope with soon to be expiring contracts. But next year it leaves us potentially more players than we have room on the roster for. Right? or am I missing something here?
Thanks to the Rake edito(s) for fixing Jianfu's link.
BTW
I've heard people talk about how these trades are good for the future, it will revitalize the fanbase, and (courtesy PA) that this will make it easy to stick it out for a few years.
I understand that the media might be gentle for awhile, and that the fans will talk about future and potential, but will they buy tickets? This city doesn't even sell out for football on off years. How many people will buy tickets for this product? I won't. Not to see a mediocre team trouncing us by 40 and laughing on the bench by the third quarter... especially if we keep Ricky D for the extra cap space that gives us next year.
I honestly don't think the Boston deal makes any sense either - Marion has already said he doesn't want to play there and won't re-sign with Boston. KG doesn't want to go there either, mostly because Pierce has been complaining about the same things KG has been - "surround me with some proven talent already!"
Involving Atlanta is the best Wolves deal out there, but wouldn't ATL be gun-shy about giving up 2 lottery picks for a guy who plays with Steve Nash? It's just like some other trade, just can't think of what ;)
I have to say that the Hollinger stats are a little depressing - I was really looking forward to Green or Brewer (and maybe Acie Law), but I'm not so sure now...
Also, Taylor owns the club, he does not mean he runs the club. Yes, his most important Wolves asset is being bandied about like a piece of steak by every media outlet imaginable, but there are more important things in life, right? Like a honeymoon! He's been involved with trade talks (probably knowing full well what everyone thinks of McHale - that he's capable of getting hosed) and knows what he wants. I don't see a problem with him going to China personally.
I also think that unless we get a deal that knocks us off our feet, let's hold off. I'd love to see whatever Ricky trade we have lined up executed (hopefully a role player, and not a "potential" guy), then see what we can do to get rid of Troy without looking too foolish.
It also sounds like Stack and Freddy are more in charge of the draft than McHale, so is it wishful thinking to hope for another Craig Smith in round 2 or buying a pick late in Round 1 (I'm hoping for Dudley)
These trade rumors are changing hourly. The latest:
- KG to Phoenix
- Marion to Boston
- Boston gives up #5 pick to Minn.
Why on earth would Boston make this trade ? There's got to
be more than that. Anyone know ?
Taylor to China on the eve of the draft ? That's simpy crazy.
I am not sure Bynum and Odem and #19 are worth KG. There has to be something better out there. Here is why I don't like this trade. First, I am not convinced Bynum will ever become anything more than he is now. He has flashes but is pretty inconsistant. He may be young, and people may say that it will take time to see. But wheather or not I like Kobe Bryant, he may have an isnight to how much talent a guy has. I think that perhaps he knows that Bynum is a L O N G term project that prolly doesn't have as great an upside as the investment it would cost to get him to his full potential.
Odem has been injured a lot in his career. There is also the NBA substance abuse policy that looms over his head. It would suck to get him and have him have a relapse when he comes here. I don't know haven't 2 players the Wolves got, fallen off the wagon while here? I'm just saying it's a possibility. I believe that L.A. has and could offer us more. Seeing we are going to lose next years draft pick maybe they could add that in too. I don't think it outlandish.
So there's why I don't like the trade with L.A. as it stands.
I think we all agree Telfair is not a good NBA basketball player. He isn't a good point guard. And apparently needs to live out his thug dream life by payback shootings with rappers at clubs around 3 AM. Great! That's just what we need here! I don't like any ..I mean ANY deal with Telfair in it..there's a reason he's bouncing around...
Personally, I would be surprised if the trade with Phoenix goes down.
Money will have to match but, I think (and I am bargining on the hope that McHale isn't as crazy as he seems) the WOlves could get the best deal out of them. They have the draft picks. They have the players. THey just don't have the money kinda. I would think Kerr would want his cake and eat it too with KG and Amare. I think he would even try to keep the Matrix. What if we got like Boris, and Barbosa, Thomas and 2 first rounders? They would get like KG and t hud.
Well the draft is tomorrow. I wonder who they are going to get?
How does Glen Taylor plan a vacation to China during the NBA draft?
Wow. The new trade scenario involving Atlanta is the best yet. We could take Al Horford at #3, who will be better than Al Jefferson in the near future, and pick up a back up point, or another big guy at #11.
It's even possible that we land the entire Gators core. Horford at #3, Brewer at #7, and Noah at #11!
I don't even care who Atlanta throws in as garbage, let's pull the trigger!
heres my take i for one dont think kg will be traded unless we get a deal like the 3rd and 11th pick from atlanta i just dont see that happening right now. if we get a brewer or a green in the draft calm me crazy but i think we can be a descent team. foye and or mccants are do for a breakout year. i here we have a trade lined up for davis but waitin to see what happens with kg trade. mchale should make another trade or two to get rid of marko, hudson, blount, maybe put them in a deal with hassell or somethin. but ya if we can get into the playoffs i think kg would stay and if we would get past the first round he would definently stay cuz he wants to be here. i may sound delusional but im counting on a good draft and some more minor trades and were are a playoof team again. i mean ur alwasy in the running with kg on ur team.
I'm with Andy B, obviously, and want to see the wolves get to the playoffs next year with KG and the kids. I don't think they'll be good enough to knock of anyone (even the phoenix win needed Pretty Ricky, who has to leave), but it could be fun. It's also necessary for us to play well enough to lose the picks to Boston and LA. We can't rebuild without being fed picks, and I can't imagine the frustration of going through 30-52 seasons only to watch the lottery from the sidelines.
Honestly, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who remembers going to games before garnett arrived. Picture the worst game you watched from last season. We'll have 40 of those without KG. All the talk of a good honest effort goes away after three months of playing .300 ball. Name a team that stays motivated like that.
Here's a hardcore statistical evaluation of this year's NCAA prospects (that is, no Yi Jianlin) courtesy of John Hollinger.
link
(It's a free preview insider article.)
Some eyebrow-raising rankings, certainly. Corey Brewer, for instance, ranks as a border-line first rounder. Actually, most of the highly thought of small forwards rate ourside of the lottery. I think Georgetown's Jeff Green ranks best at 14th. (Thaddeous Young ranks as the fourth best prospect!)
The best part is he lists his top 12 players for every draft going back to 2002, and much of the time his system appears to do pretty well. (He's very proud he would have predicted Carlos Boozer would emerge to be one of his draft's best players, seeing as how the guy slid to the second round.) Naturally, I'd prefer to see the results tested independently by someone before I buy in whole hog, but at first blush it looks impressive.
My personal favorite for this year, the man I hope the Wolves pick--Mike Conley--ranks as the 3rd best prospect (behind Durant, who is first, and Oden). So of course that makes me excited.
Andy B,
Great post. I'm a huge KG fan and don't want to see him go either.
I do not think you are stubborn or delusional. I do not, however, think that the wolves can make a bet that Garnett will not opt-out.
I think our difference in opinion comes mainly from differing assessments of both
a) the young talent the Wolves have
b) the probability that the young talent and KG can win in the playoffs
*I think we have several good young players in Foye, McCants, and Smith. But, a lot of other teams have good young talent as well. Those other teams include at least 3 teams in our division: Utah, Portland, and Denver. Seattle may soon join them with the addition of Durant/Oden.
So,
unless Foye proves to be dramatically better than Roy or Deron Williams
unless Smith proves to be radically better than Aldrige or Boozer or Nene
unless McCants proves to be better than whomever
unless KG can go toe-to-toe with Oden 3-4 years from now
*I think the wolves are in trouble*
Will trading KG help? Actually, probably not that much.
Will keeping KG this year help? Certainly.
But losing him after this season for nothing will not help at all.
This is kinda cool. One of the complaints about ESPN's Trade Machine is that it doesn't include draft picks. But RealGM's version of Trade Machine does. Check it out at
http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/1/
Maybe I'm stubborn, but I would not trade KG just to avoid a nightmare scenario. We signed him and we have an advantage of resigning him. Until KG demands to be traded, we should not worry about him walking away.
KG has always emphasized loyalty. If the wolves draft a good young player and he plays another year alongside of Foye, McCants and Smith, with the addition of Howard and the subtraction of distracting influences (Avis, Blount), KG just may enoughloyalty to this new core of young players to offset his dissatisfaction with management.
I am not yet ready to declare the KG era over, or maybe I'm just too stubborn and delusional. I heard Souhan this morning call Taylor and McHale delusional for thinking the Wolves just needed a little fix, when they really needed a complete overhaul with the overhaul being KG. Actually, we have been undergoing an overhaul of the roster since the MV3 era. So, far it has been unproductive, but we are seeing some promise with the core of younsters playing alongside KG. I'd love to see KG prove people like Souhan, Ruesse and Barreiro wrong, just because it has become so obvious to them all, at this point, that KG has to go.
It must be the contrarian in me.
I applaud Britt for calling out Sid. It's not the first article, especially those involving owners and money, that is short-sighted, incomplete, and inaccurate. Thanks Britt. On a personal note, I've often wondered whether you and others look at Sid and Shooter and think, "Gee, I better start dumbing down my column and fill it with speculation and popular opinion."
I also tip my hat to everyone here for having the courage of envisioning Kevin McHale trading away a future hall of famer and the best Timberwolves player ever. Several high draft picks are the only way to go, otherwise we're acquiring fifty cents on the dollar.
Get out the puke bucket -- Hudson, Jaric and Blount count 18, 19, and 20 millioon dollars against the cap for the next three years, respectively. That's a lot for a former one-way player, a master of none, and a slow, small forward.
I'm hoping for Corey Brewer.
Yeah, the "Draft Party" at the Target Center is free and NBA City is having 2-for-1 drink specials as well; might not be a bad bet to watch. Plus, you can pull McHale aside and grill him on why he took Spencer Hawes...
Including the NCAA tournament, I probably watch 20 college games a year, and about a half dozen from wire to wire. So anything you get out of me on the draft is received wisdom. That said, Fred Hoiberg told me the other day that Green is a really smart and versatile player "who knows how to play." Since Hoiberg always ranked right with KG in terms of overall oncourt hoops savvy and "knowing how to play" himself, that's high praise in my book, and consistent with everything I've read that says while Green may not have a tremendous upside in terms of star quality, he's a very solid player who can help a team immediately.
I guess now is also as good a time as any to trot out my cavaets. At this time of year, smokescreens, various agenda and butt-covering all play a huge role in what information gets disseminated. Plus, almost everyone who stays in school for awhile gets tagged with "not as much upside" (it happened to D Wade versus LeBron, Darko and Melo, remember?) while raw kids get hyped (and overhyped) for their potential.
I'm a lot more confident about a player once I've seen him against other NBA competition. I didn't know Craig Smith from Adam on draft night, for example, but got excited about this second round pick after two quarters of watching him work against a boxing-out load like PJ Brown in an exhibition game with Chicago.
Acquiring Ron Artest for anyone on our roster would be a horrible trade. Ron Artest is C-R-A-Z-Y. Granted, he plays defense, but that does not make him a good teammate or a decent human being. Who knows when he'll get suspended next?
The main problem with trading KG at the deadline is that we'll have much less bargaining power. Remember, Garnett will almost certainly opt-out of his contract at the end of the season. After that he can sign anywhere. So, the T-wolves will be desperate at the deadline and will make a bad deal.
Also, the acquisition of Juwan Howard is not going to help Minnesota win many games. He fills a need better than Mike James but the Wolves are still going to suck.
McHale should drop his request for Al Jefferson and instead get our 2009 pick back from Boston. This will help better facilitate any trade with LA or Indiana.
We should be content with getting Gerald Green, Telfair (who is awful), the #5 and #19 draft picks, our 2009 1st round pick back, and expiring contracts (and even Wally if we have to---in order to lose Hudson or Jaric).
It's not a bad deal. It's certainly better than Odom, Bynum and the #19 pick.
As I've noted on this forum before:
The *worst* possible outcome (barring trading KG for Zach Randolph, Pryzbilla and our #7 pick, for example) is KG leaving and the wolves getting nothing. KG leaving for nothing would be a public relations disaster for the Wolves.
Nightmare Scenario:
1. Wolves play with KG this year. Addition of draft pick and Howard improves the team enough to finish with a record of 38-44.
2. Wolves give up #1 pick to Clippers because we do not draft in top 10 b/c of our improved record.
3. KG opts out.
4. NBA draft comes and goes, Wolves have no pick and have no assets to trade for a pick.
5. 2008-2009 season begins. Wolves are horrible.
6. Wolves get to draft someone this year because the 1st round pick they traded to Boston in 2006 is lottery protected.
7. By 2012, Wolves must give pick to Boston, no matter how much they suck.
8. Wolves move to Oklahoma city. No more professional basketball in Minnesota.
In response to antonymous, the Wolves are hosting a draft party at Target Center and they have some details on the team web site.
As best I can tell, it's free and if it sucks, you can just leave the main arena and go over to NBA City anyway.
That's what my buddy and I are planning on doing.
Wow, tons of great comments here already. I don't have a ton new to add - I agree that Brewer would be the pick if he's still there @ number 7 but will most likely be gone. Jeff Green sounds like a solid back-up choice, but I'm a little worried by what some other sources have said about his lack of upside (I get most of my info from http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/fans/draft_central_prospects_2007.html which is actually a pretty good resource - they link most of the big draft sites for you already).
Is Green a guy who will make a marked difference? Do you have a take on this Britt?
I agree that PHX is something up their sleeve...strange that they're bringing in all those players, but there are so many possibilities for what they might do - dumping a star who is causing problems in the locker room (or they're just dumping salary). Either that, or they're trading off ATL's pick next year for a shot now - Nash ain't getting any younger, and this year's draft is plenty deep. If I were GM, that's certainly something to consider - the prospect of a REALLY good pick of Atlanta's next year can make some GM's do foolish things...
To be purely speculative, I'm surprised ATL hasn't been mentioned as a trade partner in this whole business. Obviously KG wouldn't want to go there, but they've got the #3 and #11 picks (though as Britt mentioned, the #3 is untradable until used due to a lack of pick next year...right?), plus they've got Josh Smith who will be due some big money soon. Anyway, they've got assets, at least.
I also agree that Barbosa is the best player the Suns have that I would want. If you guys haven't checked it out yet, do read Rollin' with Leandro over at the TrueHoop blog - it's pretty good insight on the draft process in general and on how he made it into the NBA from Brazil.
Last note - is there a good place to watch the draft in the city? The roommates and I decided against getting cable, to the benefit of our social lives, but it's gonna hurt on Thursday. You may ridicule me for this, but I'm seriously considering NBA City! Anyone know of any other bars that might be showing this? Help!
Speculation, speculation, speculation. The fun uus NBA fans have leading up to the draft. At this point, I think about 65-35 that KG has played his last game as a wolf. However, I'm in the camp that says they'll be plenty of teams wanting KG at the deadline as well, so perhaps we should make one last run with him as a wolf, because as someone else mentioned, a roster with KG can't be that far away from a deep playoff run. So I'll take a crack at the ovehaul, wholeheartedly admitting that the scenario I propose has no chance of happening.
Bring Artest to the Wolves for Ricky Davis or Hassell. People have pointed out that KG has lost a step on D, I personally contend that defense is a team issue, and that Avis, and Blount contributed more to KG's absense from the All-Defensive team than KG's age. In conjunction with an Artest trade, I would draft Noah if he's available at 7, which I think he will be. Starting lineup of KG, Noah (who doesn't need to score), Artest, McCants (whose defense was much improved last year), and Foye would be a sick defensive squad. The Wolves need an identity. If we got Artset the identity would be a lockdown defensive club. Obviously Wittman is not the right coach for the job-see points against increasing by about 5 after he took over last season-so he should be fired immediately. I would also sign AC as the backup PG, hoping that Jaric could run the point some of the time as well.
But, as Britt stated, the blood is in the water, it seems with all the reports on KG trades, he will be moved before opening day. It's very difficult to speculate where he'll end up, especially with Boston being out of the running, and the Lakers not having enough assets to make the move. My only hope is that we include Blount or Hudson in the trade, and get a bunch of youth or picks. I think the Suns might have something very tricky up their sleaves, like dealing Marion for a top ten pick to free up cap space, then making a run at KG with Amare. I personally think Amare is an ego-centric headcase and will make a fool of himself without Nash policing his actions. The guy has Black Jesus tatooed on his neck, it's safe to say he thinks pretty highly of himself. He is also the only player on the Suns who looks like he would rather have individual glory over playing perfect basketball. If we raid the Suns team I would personally want Barbosa, that kid is going to be one of the best 10 players in the NBA very soon.
I agree with everything you say about Sid, Britt. I am also thankful that this man never held a political office.
However, as a sports fan - and not a journalist who has had to share intimate space with him - I can't help but hold a little fondness for this unique character, even if I cannot take him seriously.
He is an entertaining fool.
Something to chew on, the Boston Globe has an article this AM that the Bobcats (#8) have been told that Jeff Green will not be working out for them, but will be working out for the Suns. The implication being that the Suns have a deal in place to move up.
Well that was all much ado about nothing.
The heavily reported 4 team deal that had the Celts giving up Jefferson and the #5 pick for O'Neal shows us the play on these rumors has little to do with reality and likely has a different motivation. Maybe these are floated by teams to appease their fans and stars, but it's pretty obvious that we were sucked in too. I just hope that KG was in on it so he hasn't gone through the much more significant roller coaster than we have.
Nate -
I actually think that getting Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair is acceptable if we the #5 and the #19. The way to get it done might be to convince the Pacers to send a future pick to the Celtics (they were willing to part with O'Neal and future pick for Odom and Bynum, or am I remembering this incorrectly?) If so, I'm in favor of the deal because it'll mean the T-Wolves have a shot at the #3 pick (via Chad Ford, Atlanta is supposed to be very serious about moving that pick). I think a package with the #7 and the #19 (and possibly with a player, depending on the setup) should get it done and allow the Wolves to draft Al Horford and Corey Brewer. If the Timberwolves can do that, than the only thing left to do is find another center and look into trading Ricky Davis. Of course, I am fairly certain this won't come to pass.
Now, assuming that this all falls through and the Wolves end up with the only the #7, then I would say Jeff Green (I want Brewer, but he'll be gone by then). If the Wolves panic and trade Garnett to the Lakers for Bynum, Odom, and the #19 (a deal I supported in the past, but don't now due to the better offers that KG has garnered lately), I would try to package those to get the #3 spot, but if I was stuck with #19 I would probably take either Sean Williams or Josh McRoberts.
I hope the TWolves continue to build around KG another year, as he's been the only consistently enjoyable player to watch from my seats over the past 12 years. Howard for James was brilliant, as it gives the Wolves a big that passes the ball and plays smart for a player that didn't work here. Another banger in the draft, and KG'll have some support again. However, if Conley drops to #7 I think the Wolves have to jump on him, move Randy Foye to 2 guard, and play fast up and down the floor.
Oh, and of course they need to outright cut Ricky Davis from the squad if they're serious about being a character team this next year. If he continues to start and play, it belies everything Wittman has said in the press.
It looks like Britt is off the "close personal friend" list.
I'm also bummed that I won't see KGs retirement game, bummed that it won't be here, and bummed that we're apparently starting the rebuilding process earlier than we should. What I mean by that is not only that we are giving up two first round picks (and they'll be good ones because our team will absolutely suck... lets say eggs), but also that a couple teams in our division jumpstarted their rebuilding plans by adding the #1 and #2 picks in a truly unique draft. If everything fell perfectly into place for us, we could be the Price and Daugherty Cavaliers... a good, even a very good team, but unfortunately good at the same time as the Celtics, Pistons and Bulls. Boston fans wonder what's the point of a trade for KG if they can't win a championship. But for us, we sell our soul by trading our identity (even more than Philly because we lack any history besides KG) for picks, and we do it for a 3rd place finish as our best hope... if no one bolts for better weather and a better team.
And to make matters worse, if this (KG leaving) gets done (and I don't see any way it won't be), McHale will feel like he's done enough and take off for the summer, with our team still without one of the 3 positions- center, SF or PG, and still with the cancers Blount and Davis. Great examples for the new kids.
I'm not going to comment on this post, other then with a "thanks, Britt."
I was a huge Lakers fan in the 1980s, maybe that's the reason KG to LA doesn't bother me. I really despise Kobe Bryant but I'd actually like to see KG in LA with a great player by his side and a real chance to get deep in the playoffs and win a championship. Kobe Bryant is probably the best basketball player in the NBA right now.
Wolves get #5, #19 (from LA), Green, Telfair, Ratliff.
We supposedly send KG and Jaric to LA.
If I was wolves I would ask for another draft pick (perhaps a 2009 Celtics pick, unprotected) or make someone take Troy Hudson as well as Jaric.
My reason for trading Hudson is that he sucks. If we can get a young player or another expiring contract back for his deadweight ass, hoo-rah! I'd rather have Darick Martin at the point than Thud. Ick.
I say the wolves should do it! But they need to make sure they get another draft pick or dump Hudson.
Andrew Bynum??? Are you kidding me???
No way would I want to give up one of the greatest and most likable players in the league for this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i2P14Vv3hW4
Throw in a guy who just had surgery and that's a no-brainer. For the love of God, please don't give up KG for that. And to the Lakers, no less. That's like having some guy sleep with your girlfriend and then marry your sister. Fortunately, the quotes I've seen from McHale on this deal are as I hoped they would be. He is not thrilled about Bynum and Odom (Thank God).
Either we get Jefferson and the #5, or we keep KG, try to get Artest and find a point guard. Would Chauncey sign for under $10 mil? Probably not. McHale should be trying like mad to see what he can get for our other pieces (don't laugh.. I mean pieces of sh*t) before pulling the trigger.
Besides, it would be much more fun to watch Kobe play a game of chicken with the LA brass. It would really bring a smile to my face if he sits out and continues to pout and stamp his feet as the season begins.
p.s. I enjoyed the bit about Sid. Some journalist.. the guy's column reads like a Hollywood gossip column.
Snyder--
Brauer is just a good friend amusing himself with the espn trade tracker. We always joke that, of the two choices, I think more like a coach and him more like a GM.
Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but can I ask where the David Brauer comments came from? Does he have a blog somewhere that I don't know about?
I also saw the KG to Laker's speculation on I Heart KG just now. Honestly, the only thing that makes me more sick than the thought of KG being traded is KG playing for the Lakers. If you're reading this, Glen Taylor and Kevin McHale, for the love of all that is holy, please don't do that to us loyal Timberwolve fans...
Draftwise, I agree that Brewer is the man to get at this slot, and that Green is probably my second choice, though I really could make a strong argument for most everyone who might possibly fall to us, exceptions being Yi and Brandon Wright (I don't think Yi can help enough right away and Wright lacks a good motor). I'm starting to convince myself that Conley would be a nice consolation prize if the Celts grab Brewer as part of some nefarious scheme to get in on a trade in some way.
It's obvious to me that it's put up or shut up time for upper management. Either we're going to surround KG with the vets he wants or we're going to blow up the team and get young. Well, past experience be damned, I'd love to see McHale take another shot with KG. Seriously.
First of all, I'm still a believer that ANY roster with Garnett on it is a few tweaks away from getting deep into the playoffs. We've gotten Howard, which doesn't sound like much, but we've also gotten rid of James. Also, my lack of insider information tells me that there are other players on our roster that are also being discussed if a KG deal does not happen. Obviously Troy is one, but I also do not expect Ricky to be in a Wolves uni next season either.
I think the basketball market is like any market - it ebbs and flows. Right now, I think there are some teams that are willing to take 80 cents on the dollar to either clear cap room or take a chance on some new personnel. The Wolves are no exception, but it's a matter of going aggressively after guys you are sure will help you. Camby, Brad Miller, Pryz...there are plenty of vets out there who know the game, we just need to acquire them the right way.
Bottom line: I think KG stays. We'll make a last-ditch effort to put a winning product on the court. KG stays, gets paid mad amounts of money, and we laugh at ourselves at this time next year for even having this conversation.
Please?
Nice call out on that crotchety old buffoon. Thankfully, with the wealth of sports news on the net, I don't have to read the Strib or Sid.
Anyways, Brauer's scenario is an interesting twist. I wouldn't be thrilled to get Wally back, but at least we'd dump Huddy.
Let's assume, for a minute, that we get the #5. Who do we take at #5 and #7? Also, assume that we get the above stated players.
My vote for the draft board...(in order)
Horford
Conley
Brewer
Green
Yi
Noah
B Wright